Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

AlwaysSummer Day wrote:

7threalm wrote:yes where are the orc double-axes, orcs make the best axes

HERETIC!

nice baby toy. here's what a real orc plays with

these last two posts are exactly why i wanted a class that was at least comparable to a DD. there is a healthy natural rivalry in many ways between orcs and dwarves. i have had discussions with Kraak Helzak trying to forge this even more, and they and I are quite amiable on this. a PrC that mechanically competes with them would only further this. IMHO a rivalry would draw players to both sides. the dwarf community is doing well right now, but has had its own ups and downs. the orcs are less so, staying on the downs far more than the ups. this would benefit the server to have the PrC. people do need to take into account that there are so many hardships evolved in being an orc on this server. there is a desire for mechanic balance, but considering the difficulties in just being an orc should be considered, at least to some small degree.

i combined orc warlord (5 level) prc and savage (5 level) prc together to get a 10 level prc

Orc War Savage
Reqs: BAB +5; Orc or Half-Orc; Non-Good alignment; Non-Lawful alignment; Intimidate 8, survival 5; Power Attack feat; Weapon Focus (any); Barbarian Rage

HD d10
Skill Points: 2 +Int
Class Skills: See Barbarian
Weapon Armor Proficiency: Martial weapons, Medium armor.
Saving Throws: Fort-High, Reflex-High, Will-Low
BAB: High

Advancement
1. Massive Criticals 1d8
2. Brutal Throw
3. Gather Hoard 1
4. Inspire Courage
5. Massive Criticals 2d8
6. Gather Hoard 2
7. Improved Critical (Weapon Focus choice)
8. Massive Criticals 3d12
9. Overwhelming Criticals
10. Final Rage

Feat details:

Brutal Throw:
Use your STR modifier instead of your DEX modifier to AB rolls for thrown weapons

Improved Critical:
At 7th level, the Orc Savage’s critical multiplier with their chosen weapon increases by +1, i.e. x2 becomes x3, x3 becomes x4, etc. Does not stack with Weapon Master feat of same name.

Overwhelming Criticals
When using the chosen weapon, you deal +1d6 points of bonus damage on a successful critical hit. If the weapons critical multiplier is x3, add +2d6 points of bonus damage instead. If the multiplier is x4, add +3d6 points of bonus damage instead. If the multiplier is x5, add +4d6 points of bonus damage instead. Creatures immune to critical hits are also immune to the effects of this feat. You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different type of weapon.

Gather Hoard: An orc warlord can maintain a larger force of orc followers than a comparable leader could of other creatures. The Orc Warlord can summon a loyal Lieutenant to assist him in battle. At level 3 the Orc Warlord may summon a single Orc that scales to HD. The Warlord may do this 1/day and the summon lasts for 24 hours. In all aspects it is an Orc warrior of LN alignment. At the 6th level, the Orc Warlord may do this 3/day. This is a full round action.

Inspire Courage: At 4nd level, the orc warlord gains the ability to inspire courage, which has the same effect as the bardic ability of the same name. The warlord makes an inspirational speech, bolstering his allies against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must hear the warlord speak for a full round. The effect lasts as long as the warlord speaks and for 5 rounds after the warlord stops speaking (or 5 rounds after the ally can no longer hear the warlord). While speaking, the warlord can fight but cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by command word. Affected allies receive a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. A warlord in the midst of a rage can use this ability, but in those cases the warlord's speech is more of a rant of howls and curses than a true speech.

Final Rage: At 10th level, the warlord gains the ability to incite a rage in all his nearby allies for one last phenomenal attack. Any allies within ten feet of the warlord (including the warlord himself) immediately enter a rage, even if they could not normally do so or have used all their own rage ability for the day. If the warlord or an ally is already in a rage at the time or is capable of a greater rage, the affected creatures enter a greater rage instead (if an affected creature is already in a greater rage, this ability has no additional effect). This rage (or increase to greater rage) lasts until the warlord's next turn, and all penalties for leaving a rage apply (for example, the creatures are fatigued, and if already fatigued they become exhausted). Invoking the final rage is a free action.

Double axe eh? I can see it now. . . .

orc hands are good enough to take out a dwarf. the double axe would just make it even faster.

ok, so maybe this should come back up. the team may need some help with this one.

i understand the want for balance and the desire to not move the power creep. but your scales may need a a bit of calibration. you dont seem to give enough credit to the race restriction. playing an orc is not like playing an elf or aasimar or even a tiefling. its way harder.

Bad start, honestly. You won't get any special power treatment for playing an Orc.

Barbarian is a half-orc favoured class and has recently been boosted to near-godhood. How is a Barb20/WoD10 not comparable (or better) than any DD build? I like the new Orc War Drummer class, it works well for quite a few build concepts. If you want overall power, just build with barbarian now.

AC81 wrote:Barbarian is a half-orc favoured class and has recently been boosted to near-godhood. How is a Barb20/WoD10 not comparable (or better) than any DD build? I like the new Orc War Drummer class, it works well for quite a few build concepts. If you want overall power, just build with barbarian now.

What does favored class have to do with any of this? you did not use an example of utilizing a favored class. See a DD can only be played if you roll a dwarf. A barb can be played by any race. If I really want to play the DD, I have to roll a dwarf.

Valefort wrote:Bad start, honestly. You won't get any special power treatment for playing an Orc.

I don't want special treatment at all. Never asked for it. There is a difference in saying what I wanted to see from a class and demanding it. I "wanted" you to take a look at the other races archetype classes and then look at what you gave us with the OWD, and see where things got a bit sideways. I want a million dollars to fall in my lap. I want gal gadot to marry me. Wanting something is not demanding something it's just wanting.

I promise you. I am not at my computer stomping my foot and shaking a fist at the monitor. I don't have that much emotion tied up into the game for that.

Anyway, you do not care about the IG difficulties involved in playing orc. I guess I can see that. It's all about the mechanics. Well. Surface orc has to get DA and the scent feat is typically ignored. There is a one ECL. but we get fast movement. There is not a orc weapon proficiency.

Yes, but Grey Orcs mechanically are one of the better races in many ways. There bonus to STR and WIS is fantastic if you want to make a Sacred Fist (and favored class-cleric!) Regardless if you go heavy Monk or (the new standard) go for CL30 w/ Hierophant, there are few races that will make a better Sacred Fist, mechanically speaking. In fact, only Human or Half-elf can even do so without an XP penalty... Dual Ranger is another that is tough to compete with. R21/CS9, or any other combination of Cavestalker is great now that they get caster progression. With Mithral Chainmail only requiring 14 DEX this is at least on par with, if not better mechanically than a Wood Elf for making a Ranger.

Now, for Barbarian builds or F12+/FB5/X/X builds Half-Orc is better in most cases simply due to the +1 CON and no ECL, but Grey Orc is still right up there close, since +2 STR/WIS is certainly not a bad thing to have...Just the WIS is wasted when you are generally going to have Steadfast in your build.

I really do think you are underestimating the power level of Orc War Drummer PRC for ANY melee build, but I realize it is not the flavor you wanted and that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion of the class... I just think this is a situation where an Orc War Drummer is powerful on his own since it only costs 5 levels and you really do gain a lot for those levels. Especially with the recommendations to switch the requirement from SF:Perform and Able Learner and allow the higher of Intimidate or Perform (or just switch it to Intimidate) for purposes of the DC, this PRC will really help any build solo. In a group it is going to be hard to find a build that is a strong melee combatant with no buffs while also providing a permanent buff to the whole group.

You know... Breach Gnome, it is a source book PRC, but I would have preferred some kind of illusionist PRC for gnomes. Warsling Sniper, it is also a source book PRC, but I would have preferred some kind of 'sneaky' PRC for halflings.

Oh, and found this.

It might make OWD bit more of a mouthful, but how about changing the name to Howling Orcish War Drummer? HOWD?

@aaron My point is IG difficulties of playing an Orc, which I acknowledge, are not a reason to make a powerful Orc PRC. In fact I don't understand this reasoning at all except under the PvP angle which is extremely specific and not ground to build a PRC on. Or are there other IG difficulties of playing an Orc beyond PvP that elude me ?

Also guess I have trouble seeing how HOWD is not powerful, to me it can be included in almost any build and be good

i was not here to argue for the illusionist and i think warslinger is a pretty prototypical halfling class. I am also not saying that the OWD is a bad class. i will try a few builds with it, but i do not see these builds utilizing the strongest aspects of the race. and i will probably not be buying the miniature. i totally didnt see a drum .

i do not see a problem arguing for an idea that i think is better. i am not asking for anything to be removed from the game, nor am i asking for someone to undue alot of work that has already been done. i am not asking for anything that has special extra power. i am just asking for an archetype to the race. not a flavor addition. i do not feel like i am being unreasonable (BW would be awesome but acknowledge that it is OP) or asking for something undesirable. and just because i am asking doesnt mean anything greater than that. im just asking. debating. selling in some way. this is not a condemnation of the OWD. OWD to me looks like a FANTASTIC 2nd addition.

Barbarian is pretty archetypical to the orc race. Is it because you want something that is for orcs and orcs alone?

I didn't like the options so I put get back to the drawing board.

Blood Warrior looked interesting but quite overpowered with the whole displacement rage thing.

I do want an Orc specific PRC though.