Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Sorry, it is not my intention to turn this in a one-vs-the-other debate.

I just think that the RCR as a whole is very OOC, and in some cases detrimental to RP. I fear that allowing 100% RCRs regularly will cause more and more RP avenues to be abandoned. Though perhaps you are right, that they are not as much of a dichotomy as I seem to have made it out to be.

The other side of the coin is that for me, I don't think it would change very much. Let others do their way of playing the game. As long as Bob the Paladin doesn't turn into Bob the Druid overnight, I'm quite fine with whatever. Just thought I'd share my opinion on both sides

Zanniej wrote:As long as Bob the Paladin doesn't turn into Bob the Druid overnight, I'm quite fine with whatever.

Bob the Paladin might have spend months slowly falling out of grace and trying to find a new purpose, and when the change comes, it is still an overnight change for most players.

Planehopper wrote:I feel like that is a false dichotomy. I am only an RPer. I would enjoy this ability. I think I've made the case for that elsewhere, but wanted to step in before this became an RP-vs-action debate.

Its not just RP and there alway be alternatives. The cons, other than the RP ones which are relative to each one player, are the many bugs and the many exploits which will not only require to constantly monitor them but dev time as well to fix them. Those are not relative. They are there. Asking for a monthly RCR is like asking to knowingly introduce a feature full of bugs and exploits. I dont think its going to happen any time soon.

mrm3ntalist wrote:Asking for a monthly RCR is like asking to knowingly introduce a feature full of bugs and exploits. I dont think its going to happen any time soon.

And, to add: it is possible, right now, that if you have a broken or mis-built Character, or that some Feat or whatever you choose is broken or not performing "as advertised," you have the option to write the DM Team and request a rebuild token.

Your reason(s) should be plausible, and clear, and in general, don't expect it to happen, just cause you made the request. But if your reason has true merit, and not just a "I'm bored with my toon" reason behind it, there is this one possible recourse to get 100% RCR refund.

At least, I'm assuming this policy hasn't changed in the last year, when I was granted a 100% RCR because my character had taken a Feat that simply would not work properly.

mrm3ntalist wrote:

Planehopper wrote:I feel like that is a false dichotomy. I am only an RPer. I would enjoy this ability. I think I've made the case for that elsewhere, but wanted to step in before this became an RP-vs-action debate.

Its not just RP and there alway be alternatives. The cons, other than the RP ones which are relative to each one player, are the many bugs and the many exploits which will not only require to constantly monitor them but dev time as well to fix them. Those are not relative. They are there. Asking for a monthly RCR is like asking to knowingly introduce a feature full of bugs and exploits. I dont think its going to happen any time soon.

I don't see how full RCR exacerbates an open exploit or bug moreso than the current form, butthat's why you get paid the big bucks. I haven't peeked behind the curtain in a long while and trust your judgment.

I wouldn't advocate for monthly RCR100s, either. I think yearly, or semiannual, would be enough of a compromise to make each argument relatively happy.

If nothing else, let's celebrate the 10 year anniversary with an email spam to all account holders with an active RCR100 period and get this party started.

If the problem is that the levelling process is not fulfilling enough at epics, then surely the solution should be to make it more fulfilling? (not just give out free 100% RCRs)

Also, 100% allows people to "level an easy build" and then RCR it to a late-blooming build once they reach 30 - and so will encourage lots of character recycling, which will harm RP continuity. I say that because I know I would do it much more (which I hate to admit).

Quidix wrote: Also, 100% allows people to "level an easy build" and then RCR it to a late-blooming build once they reach 30

I said the same thing. This is what can make things seem unfair.

When I leveled my Drizard, it was VERY painful to get to level 9 spells at level 23. If I could have just RCRd it into 23, would be no issue or pain.

Wait, am I for or against full RCR? I hated that pain LOL!

of all the things i could consider the one that to me stands out as being the worst would be a doppelganger.

the doppelganger is a level 30... everything. whatever is popular right now.

elf mage guild starts up... 30 elf mage
zhents get some cool events centered around them... zhent cleric
UD picks up with regular DM events..... Drow weapon master
elf mage guild gets some attention.... back to elf mage on fridays, but can play the Drow WM
on sundays.
the other days i can play my merchant build and make money on the transactions as well as sell some homemade pots and wands.
on tuesdays i can play a red wizard and get some cool evil diplomacy RP in BG.

No temporary characters will have RP clout to do the things you say there (ignoring the massive gold sink that is replacing a wizard spellbook). While your concern has merit, this is am extreme outlier from the norm and only possible during limited windows that have been requested.

There are already people that try lesser extremes of these things, the only exception is they take the RCR penalty and then grind grind grind back to where they were. Is that what we would rather see?

more accurate issue would be leveling up as a Favored Soul and then RCR'ing in to an "RP" build once you finish. Theoretically just creating a new FvS each time so that eventually you have half a dozen level 30 characters, none of which ever RP'd with anyone...Just appeared at max level. Both of the RCR periods we've had saw a good amount of this type of thing where epic PC's just appeared from the blue. Making it a common occurrence that players expect every [x amount of time] would likely result in an increase in the percentage of level 30 PC's simply because no one would RCR from 30 down to 20 anymore, they would simply wait until the free period and RCR at that time... Losing whatever RP they've built and making PC's that are often more powerful than those built organically. There are plenty of builds that suck to level, but when they 'bloom' become much stronger. Hawk gave one example of this, but I've had several as well, one of which didn't get HiPS until level 30.

Experiencing the difficult times in leveling is a part of understanding the character and respecting when they do come in to their power. For example, consider the standard R16/IB5/A9... By dropping IB to 3 and A to 8 you can add 3 levels of bodyguard for +1d6 sneak dice, +10% movement speed and + 1 BAB at a cost of 2 points of AC, which is no longer nearly as big an issue for rogues with the epic shops. Normally, while more powerful, it's not worth it to do this because in order to get Epic Dodge you have to delay HiPS to 30. However, if you could simply level up to 30 and then free RCR for the boost why wouldn't you? Same could be said for less than full caster builds that get level 8/9 spells late or builds that have to delay key abilities to epics to meet 3b20 rules.

Even taking level 30 out of the discussion and just talking about getting 100% in late teens and early to mid 20's, free RCR circumvents the 3b20 rule effectively making it 3bX where X is whatever level you are RCR'ing to. This fundamentally changes the rules of the server allowing more epic feats, such as using bonus feats that would normally be obtained pre-epic in epic levels. It also allows for easily avoiding a 'wasted' feat on able learner because you can alternate levels where normally you might take levels as quickly as possible such as with Assassin or Bladesinger.

chad878262 wrote:Have you ever compared the number of * PCs logged in to the number of ** and ***? Other than when a new group gets formed or new players join in fairly significant numbers there are very few * PCs. It would be naive to think that 100% RCR wouldn't have a further impact to this.

The situation would be the same as it is now. The difference is that people who are fed up with their characters and haven o time to "walk the xp road" again right now aren't playing.

chad878262 wrote:more accurate issue would be leveling up as a Favored Soul and then RCR'ing in to an "RP" build once you finish.

I don't have a problem with this as long as FS properly roleplays with the other people while leveling up. Alignment, gods, everything.

(Tried to play a FS once, was bored to tears)

Except RP can't be monitored and your perception is partial, consider the bad usages of a suggestion instead of insisting on the postitive sides.

Anyway this is not wonderland, we have cheaters, exploiters, and more generally uncaring people. What is the number of players who would use it to play again because they can't be arsed to level up again ? 10, 15, or more likely 0 ? Call me cynical but if it was added I think the number of people who would use it for bad reasons would be far superior.

This reminds me of muling, except instead of items and gold we have experience points. At this point we might as well have a big account wide inventory together with an account wide exp pool that you can move around at your leisure... and I'm sure some people would enjoy it for a time... completely ignoring that it's a character who earned the exp and the loot, and not a player.

Steve wrote:

I’m forced to do something I don’t enjoy...

No one is forced to log on, or roll up a PC, or/especially not forced to Level.

If anything, you are "forced" to role-play, as this IS a RPG and RP Server.

BGTSCC also needs capable "bit players" at the low levels as well! If all the good RPers sit at Lvl 30, then as Valefort pointed out, the Servers low CR areas become a wasteful content and provides no good experience for those Newbies that have not the luxury to RCR evens single Experience Point.

Don't give up on the Lowbie RP, people!

C’mon Steve. You’re a) getting caught up on semantics and b) taking things out of context. Obviously I’m not forced to do anything in a vacuum, but there are a lot of qualifying if/then sorts of statements surrounding the half-sentence you chose to quote which alter the meaning. You know, context! Lol.

Allow me to demonstrate how taking things out of context is an easy way to change the flow of a conversation or ignore salient points that don’t jive with my agenda.

No one is forced to log on

Is this really the attitude we want to cultivate amongst the playerbase? Telling people not to bother logging on if they don’t enjoy the game the same way you do? For shame!

As for the rest of your post, you do realize that the current system allows us to bypass the first 20 levels worth of content (grinding?), right? And yet plenty of people still role up fresh characters. I really don’t think more frequent rcr100 periods would even be noticeable.

Valefort wrote:This reminds me of muling, except instead of items and gold we have experience points. At this point we might as well have a big account wide inventory together with an account wide exp pool that you can move around at your leisure... and I'm sure some people would enjoy it for a time... completely ignoring that it's a character who earned the exp and the loot, and not a player.

This is interesting, and certainly strikes at the heart of the ‘problem’, if we even want to call it that. The more things we introduce for convenience, like muling and the RCR guy in the nexus, and we still have 96/96 players, the less outlandish it seems to ask for even more convenience factors. Hmmm. It’s tough to sort it all out.

I will say I thought muling was/is insane on a medium RP server, but overall the server doesn’t really seem all that different in terms of the feel and the quality of players I run into than it did 8 years ago. I’ve even taken advantage of it and didn’t suddenly lose my ability to stay in character, so perhaps my initial disgust at the idea was unfounded. Or perhaps the effects are subtly insidious and I just haven’t noticed it yet. Like I said, tough to sort out.

chambordini wrote:

aaron22 wrote:of all the things i could consider the one that to me stands out as being the worst would be a doppelganger.

the doppelganger is a level 30... everything. whatever is popular right now.

elf mage guild starts up... 30 elf mage
zhents get some cool events centered around them... zhent cleric
UD picks up with regular DM events..... Drow weapon master
elf mage guild gets some attention.... back to elf mage on fridays, but can play the Drow WM
on sundays.
the other days i can play my merchant build and make money on the transactions as well as sell some homemade pots and wands.
on tuesdays i can play a red wizard and get some cool evil diplomacy RP in BG.

We could possibly forbid that sort of RCRing mechanically, like say, enforce the same name, same base class, comparing RCR'ed character with redeemer, but IDK if that would be very appreciated. There's two sorts of RCRs, character rebuilds and character retirements, I don't think either are particularly illegitimate.

I do not know about you but I would rather a PC disappear than have 500 different professions.

I am sure everyone just loved Kory going from regular fighter to wizard to favored soul in his time......

For me Frankenstein builds are far worse than a PC just going away if you as a player were not having fun with it then chances are the PC was not really known well enough for RP to be an issue with them cause you did not play them well enough or even often enough to establish that type of bond IG with other PCs.

If we were to get any RCR at 100% I for sure would prefer we not make us keep the same name of the PC please. Let us the players decided if that PC is going to become Frankenstein's monster.