The State of Leveling

[EasternCheesE]

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I try to read it, but sorry, too many thoughts and too few concrete implementable suggestions.

So far, i see such suggestions (i name person i see initially suggested it, not how many people suggested it)
1) Make all players lvl 30 with +3 starter gear (Tekill)
2) Make lvl 30th loose something on death (Steve)
3) Renown system where lvl 30 PCs can get some official positions, nobility etc (Steve)
4) Speed up IC request processing (Steve)
5) Speed up leveling (Blazerules)
6) More quests and only 1-time per character and reward more generously (Young Werther)
7) More maps (Well, many people told about that but not as main point)
8) Introductory system for new players (Illy)

Great job finding all that lol. You should include the thought of reverting changes such as those mentioned in the OP and the loot nerf.

Well, topicstarter did raise issues, but not suggestions on how to handle them. But okay, i can answer those from my POV too:
Topicstarter concerns:
1) Removal of level scaling

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I myself don't like it being removed as well. Probably, it should be redone to make random mobs grow stronger instead of pushing all spawns stronger.
I believe the main reason it was removed are bad settings/lack of flexibility. It caused CR 1 skeletons on graveyard to become CR 3 and shred newbies that were unfortunate to come here after someone.

2) Reduction of resting spots

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Well, this one was way before me, i assume, but i never felt there is lack of rest spots in places that logically should allow for resting. Nearly every map that is not designed to be come-in-kill-all type have resting spots.

3) Thinning of spawns

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I don't know if it refers to some process of making less spawns in general. I myself saw trolls and wyverns getting less spawns. But that's because they were #1 grind spots for whole server. You normally level to 10 somehow then you do xvarts then you do wyverns then do troll till you are lvl 25. Such thing should be addressed on more global scale like rebalancing our PvE content exactly. Rhifox did actually make staff-wide guidelines on how to remake spawns, but we desperately need more builders that could actually rework areas.

4) Retreat script.

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It has always been with retreat script since i play here (starting in 2018), so i can't say much about it. It's a good thing cause it forces people to switch area instead of mindless slaughter for hours. Sure, it can be cheesed (hehe) by going to other place for 20 minutes and getting back, but it's at least something.

Generally, speaking of PvE balance, i believe, we need mobs to have less spawnpoints but more in number (and variety) and providing same balanced party against players. In this case, there will be less-in-number-but-more-intense fights that give sameish XP instead of groups of 1-3 mobs wandering across area. Good example of this approach are areas underneath graveyard. Doesn't mean wandering small troops shouldn't be the case, but overall design needs to be "good pack in logical place" rather than wandering mobs that respawn at player backs. Forgotten city does actually provide such style of spawns where you rarely fight single mob.

As of forgotten city, as soon as it was mentioned. I helped Bano with scripting on the map and i know how it was made. There are many gold mobs that drop many lootz which stands out from other areas a lot. Yes, it's challenging area, but gold mob density was even bigger than infamous troll claws pre-spawn adjustment.
Not a single mob was removed, they just lost "boss" status that guaranteed loot drop.

[Rinzler]

To clarify, removing yellow spawns North of Mist Lake and Forgotten City also nerfed XP (not just loot).

[Hullack]

I myself saw trolls and wyverns getting less spawns. But that's because they were #1 grind spots for whole server.

Perhaps we could revisit the decision to bring them down vs the rest of the areas up?

[Jepop]

To clarify, removing yellow spawns North of Mist Lake and Forgotten City also nerfed XP (not just loot).

+1

[blazerules]

5) Speed up leveling (Blazerules)

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This one has both pros and cons. Honestly, to me, levels 10-25 are much better than other levels cause RP is still here, people are here and there is something to do. Speeding this up makes "dead area" much closer and makes way less sense to even build many areas cause people will speedrun levels way before ever coming to one.

Yes and no.

Speed up leveling 21 and above. I think leveling to 20 is fine and can be fun. But some people like say ILLY are burnt out by 19... I cant imagine their thoughts when they hit the 21+ slog.

Their issue is lack of map diversity for sure.

On more maps:
It can also mean doing something to make more areas viable for XP. And thus, increasing amount of maps without increasing amount of maps. Simply by making it more likely people will get about.

Personally I think death penalty is a deterrent to leveling in more areas since the XP penalty can mean hours of your time was absolutely worthless and thats just not a fun place to be in. Extremely demotivating.

Perhaps some amount of limited area scaling (that makes grinding there actually worth it) could be a HUGE thing imho. More maps is simply a common suggestion because people are tired of being funneled into the most optimal areas. So of more areas are optimal then wouldnt that just mean more maps is the byproduct?


"More maps" + faster post 20 leveling could both contribute to making epic content a lot more bearable. Both scaling and leveling faster would have the effect of spending less time in the same areas.

Question is how to do faster leveling?
1. Items that are capped XP boosters?
2. RP XP slowly building up a "boosted" XP thing that is used up and gives extra XP from this pool. You could even have "tiers". Where having enough boosted XP just increases payout so you use the pool quicker. (Boosted XP being 2x. So a mob gives 11XP? You get 11 bonus. Have a very large pool of boosted XP? You get 22xp. So you end up with 33XP from 1 mob). Should have a toggle to use this boosted XP or not however.
3. Just increasing XP?

I'm bad at cons but I'll try.

1. Pro: This is a fairly easy (probably?) Thing to do. And could be combined with crafting if we ever get it. It also makes it an optional system that people dont have to opt into.

Con: Definitely far too gamey no matter how you go about it. It might end jo being far too expensive for the average starting player too. I'm not a fan of this one.

2. Pro: Encourages RP and isnt "too much". Just don't have a limit on the Boosted XP pool and then people who RP a ton could go leveling and get high rewards. This actively funnels people into RP, while also speeding up leveling when they decide to do it.

It also doesn't straight up increase leveling nor does it make any changes to the content. Also pretty easy to tweak (I think?). Rewards BOTH RP and makes grind less slow.

Also allows the player to choose (with toggle) if XP is boosted or not. Plus it's a limited pool.

Cons: Can be seen as unearned and being too fast for some content.

3. Pro: Leaves content 20 and below alone.

Cons: Far too much of a sweeping change that effects everyone whether they like it or not.



On thinning of spawns and retreat script:
This in my personal opinion does absolutely nothing to solve the problem. Players found a solution to what they didnt like and the solution was removed. Using a stick instead of a carrot is not a good way to go about it and simply makes the problem worse.

People still do xvarts and wyverns. It's just more tedious now. So that's about all it did. Because of course. The idea was good but nerfing player made solutions without making a solution in turn is a bad way to go about things.

I agree in concept. Increase area variety by providing incentives to go to different areas. But it was done by beating players with a stick instead of providing carrots.

A semi famous example is from WoW. I vaguely remember the details. They wanted to have rested XP for logging off in inns. So they provided a debuff if you didn't "sleep" (log off) in an inn for too long. Players HATED this.

They changed it to provide an XP buff. The net result was the same but people loved it. The change was from a stick to a carrot.

It doesnt apply 1:1 here but...

If there is a single take away from this post let it be this:
Please provide carrots and dont beat with sticks.

[Lethze]

To me the major problem with leveling is always the imbalanced resource allocation in the process.

The only 2 visibly quantitative common resource types are gold and experience, plus time which is a critical resource both in and out of the game. Out of PR, purely mechanically these resources can all be converted to each other whether directly or indirectly (spending time to grind XP and golds, spending golds to buy better equipments to grind XP, and of course lose XP to die in somewhere to trade for some treasures, but I doubt there would be anyone doing so). Usually the consumption of time can make one obtain both gold and XP, Yet a exception is that as one reaches level 30, there wills still be gold revenue for the consumption of time, but the XP revenue would be, let's see... 0! And as one equips a character with better gears, the conversion rate of golds to XP also decreases, till the point when the character equips in full top-tier gears, at the point the efficiency of gold to Xp would be near 0. Thus mechanically leveling a character to 30 will actually be a sharp decline in a player's utility, a big paradox to the environment that forces everyone to rush to high levels. And the death penalty; at most time the spending of XP will not gain one any golds, not to mention time. YOU CAN'T GAIN TIME!

And if considering RP the case will be more weird. Gold is a resource appears both IC and OOC, as gold is the common currency of Faerun and everyone needs it, and XP, well it's a completely OOC resource (or you think becoming a 9th level arch-wizard in 3 days is really in character?), but the fact is XP is considered way more important than gold (to see the player grinding again and again in one map, I'm sure they don't gain a lot golds by doing that). One can gain golds in a lot of methods involving RP (being a merchant, asking for donation etc), for the nature that golds can be exchanged between characters. But how to gain XP involving RP? Chatting? Grinding? Whether one XP is always out of context; there are always players saying "Hey wanna earn some golds down the dungeon?" Never heard of "Hey wanna earn some XP down the dungeon?" (which is purely OOC.) Thus resulting in a weird sight that in a RP server the most important resource has nothing to do with RP.

In short, in my opinion the way the resources are allocated is driving the game environment in a opposite direction of the server's major purpose.

I somehow got a solution off the top of my head for this painful aspect of leveling. There can be some sort of mechanics to let players convert golds into XP more efficiently. Maybe something like a training course (or something makes more sense) ICly (or just OOCly) allowing directly purchasing XP in golds (or some other common currency, if there is one). This will not only make leveling easier and golds more valuable late game; as mentioned gold is important in RP because it's tied to Faerun and can be exchanged between players, while XP is the opposite, out of context and isolated; if golds can be used to buy XP (which is basically a new method to gain XP), the depth and diversity of RP would increase due to the characters RPing merchants or mercenaries or anything with a direct gold income can more efficiently gain XP, instead of only being rewarded with golds to their RP, which can encorage them to actually RP their characters and worry less about leveling; and when my character says its golds are going to be used to help the homeless, they are really used to help the homeless and my character is gaining XP for it (assuming giving golds to the homeless can be another IC mechanism to trade golds for XP) instead of actually keeping those golds myself.

And by that way the players who already got a high level character (or characters) can progress their new characters more freely (I mean, to me the most annoying part is not how boring and time-consuming it is to level one character to high levels, but if I want to play a new character I have to do it again), since golds can be easily transfered to another character in multiple ways while it's simply impossible for XP. If concerning there will be old players with tons of golds just make a bunch of new characters level 30 within a hour, then a daily/weekly convertion limitation can be made, if not wanting anyone leveling too fast. Then at least one can expect its characters to reach X level at some time and enjoy the time before that to do something more interesting than infinite grinding.

Of course this is only based on the existing properties of the resources. If essential change to the property of XP is possible, then the solutions may just be more direct and easy.

[EasternCheesE]

To clarify, removing yellow spawns North of Mist Lake and Forgotten City also nerfed XP (not just loot).

No objections, it did. But given overall spawn quantity, it's a minor drop as for me.

[ILLY]

To me the major problem with leveling is always the imbalanced resource allocation in the process.

The only 2 visibly quantitative common resource types are gold and experience, plus time which is a critical resource both in and out of the game. Out of PR, purely mechanically these resources can all be converted to each other whether directly or indirectly (spending time to grind XP and golds, spending golds to buy better equipments to grind XP, and of course lose XP to die in somewhere to trade for some treasures, but I doubt there would be anyone doing so). Usually the consumption of time can make one obtain both gold and XP, Yet a exception is that as one reaches level 30, there wills still be gold revenue for the consumption of time, but the XP revenue would be, let's see... 0! And as one equips a character with better gears, the conversion rate of golds to XP also decreases, till the point when the character equips in full top-tier gears, at the point the efficiency of gold to Xp would be near 0. Thus mechanically leveling a character to 30 will actually be a sharp decline in a player's utility, a big paradox to the environment that forces everyone to rush to high levels. And the death penalty; at most time the spending of XP will not gain one any golds, not to mention time. YOU CAN'T GAIN TIME!

And if considering RP the case will be more weird. Gold is a resource appears both IC and OOC, as gold is the common currency of Faerun and everyone needs it, and XP, well it's a completely OOC resource (or you think becoming a 9th level arch-wizard in 3 days is really in character?), but the fact is XP is considered way more important than gold (to see the player grinding again and again in one map, I'm sure they don't gain a lot golds by doing that). One can gain golds in a lot of methods involving RP (being a merchant, asking for donation etc), for the nature that golds can be exchanged between characters. But how to gain XP involving RP? Chatting? Grinding? Whether one XP is always out of context; there are always players saying "Hey wanna earn some golds down the dungeon?" Never heard of "Hey wanna earn some XP down the dungeon?" (which is purely OOC.) Thus resulting in a weird sight that in a RP server the most important resource has nothing to do with RP.

In short, in my opinion the way the resources are allocated is driving the game environment in a opposite direction of the server's major purpose.

I somehow got a solution off the top of my head for this painful aspect of leveling. There can be some sort of mechanics to let players convert golds into XP more efficiently. Maybe something like a training course (or something makes more sense) ICly (or just OOCly) allowing directly purchasing XP in golds (or some other common currency, if there is one). This will not only make leveling easier and golds more valuable late game; as mentioned gold is important in RP because it's tied to Faerun and can be exchanged between players, while XP is the opposite, out of context and isolated; if golds can be used to buy XP (which is basically a new method to gain XP), the depth and diversity of RP would increase due to the characters RPing merchants or mercenaries or anything with a direct gold income can more efficiently gain XP, instead of only being rewarded with golds to their RP, which can encorage them to actually RP their characters and worry less about leveling; and when my character says its golds are going to be used to help the homeless, they are really used to help the homeless and my character is gaining XP for it (assuming giving golds to the homeless can be another IC mechanism to trade golds for XP) instead of actually keeping those golds myself.

And by that way the players who already got a high level character (or characters) can progress their new characters more freely (I mean, to me the most annoying part is not how boring and time-consuming it is to level one character to high levels, but if I want to play a new character I have to do it again), since golds can be easily transfered to another character in multiple ways while it's simply impossible for XP. If concerning there will be old players with tons of golds just make a bunch of new characters level 30 within a hour, then a daily/weekly convertion limitation can be made, if not wanting anyone leveling too fast. Then at least one can expect its characters to reach X level at some time and enjoy the time before that to do something more interesting than infinite grinding.

Of course this is only based on the existing properties of the resources. If essential change to the property of XP is possible, then the solutions may just be more direct and easy.

This is just grinding with extra steps.

[Lethze]

To me the major problem with leveling is always the imbalanced resource allocation in the process.

The only 2 visibly quantitative common resource types are gold and experience, plus time which is a critical resource both in and out of the game. Out of PR, purely mechanically these resources can all be converted to each other whether directly or indirectly (spending time to grind XP and golds, spending golds to buy better equipments to grind XP, and of course lose XP to die in somewhere to trade for some treasures, but I doubt there would be anyone doing so). Usually the consumption of time can make one obtain both gold and XP, Yet a exception is that as one reaches level 30, there wills still be gold revenue for the consumption of time, but the XP revenue would be, let's see... 0! And as one equips a character with better gears, the conversion rate of golds to XP also decreases, till the point when the character equips in full top-tier gears, at the point the efficiency of gold to Xp would be near 0. Thus mechanically leveling a character to 30 will actually be a sharp decline in a player's utility, a big paradox to the environment that forces everyone to rush to high levels. And the death penalty; at most time the spending of XP will not gain one any golds, not to mention time. YOU CAN'T GAIN TIME!

And if considering RP the case will be more weird. Gold is a resource appears both IC and OOC, as gold is the common currency of Faerun and everyone needs it, and XP, well it's a completely OOC resource (or you think becoming a 9th level arch-wizard in 3 days is really in character?), but the fact is XP is considered way more important than gold (to see the player grinding again and again in one map, I'm sure they don't gain a lot golds by doing that). One can gain golds in a lot of methods involving RP (being a merchant, asking for donation etc), for the nature that golds can be exchanged between characters. But how to gain XP involving RP? Chatting? Grinding? Whether one XP is always out of context; there are always players saying "Hey wanna earn some golds down the dungeon?" Never heard of "Hey wanna earn some XP down the dungeon?" (which is purely OOC.) Thus resulting in a weird sight that in a RP server the most important resource has nothing to do with RP.

In short, in my opinion the way the resources are allocated is driving the game environment in a opposite direction of the server's major purpose.

I somehow got a solution off the top of my head for this painful aspect of leveling. There can be some sort of mechanics to let players convert golds into XP more efficiently. Maybe something like a training course (or something makes more sense) ICly (or just OOCly) allowing directly purchasing XP in golds (or some other common currency, if there is one). This will not only make leveling easier and golds more valuable late game; as mentioned gold is important in RP because it's tied to Faerun and can be exchanged between players, while XP is the opposite, out of context and isolated; if golds can be used to buy XP (which is basically a new method to gain XP), the depth and diversity of RP would increase due to the characters RPing merchants or mercenaries or anything with a direct gold income can more efficiently gain XP, instead of only being rewarded with golds to their RP, which can encorage them to actually RP their characters and worry less about leveling; and when my character says its golds are going to be used to help the homeless, they are really used to help the homeless and my character is gaining XP for it (assuming giving golds to the homeless can be another IC mechanism to trade golds for XP) instead of actually keeping those golds myself.

And by that way the players who already got a high level character (or characters) can progress their new characters more freely (I mean, to me the most annoying part is not how boring and time-consuming it is to level one character to high levels, but if I want to play a new character I have to do it again), since golds can be easily transfered to another character in multiple ways while it's simply impossible for XP. If concerning there will be old players with tons of golds just make a bunch of new characters level 30 within a hour, then a daily/weekly convertion limitation can be made, if not wanting anyone leveling too fast. Then at least one can expect its characters to reach X level at some time and enjoy the time before that to do something more interesting than infinite grinding.

Of course this is only based on the existing properties of the resources. If essential change to the property of XP is possible, then the solutions may just be more direct and easy.

This is just grinding with extra steps.

If taking a strict reductionism perspective everything is "grinding with extra steps" (and due to the lack of a strict intension of the term "grinding" the reduction is rather free and inclusive). Is providing a system that the massive amount of golds gained by RP can be used to trade for XP to level up just another extension of "grinding"? It can be as long as no one knows exactly what is the definition of "grinding".

[Steve]

How does this help when people dont find RP and just want to get some levels in when RP is unavailable (which is quite common)? Just leave because it's bad? Titanias friend left the game. So that's one new player we lost to it. It wont hurt to make improvements here. Because people will not be RPing 24/7. Getting more XP and rewards from RP wont help there.

Though I'll also admit I have no idea what "Focusing on RP and the moment in progression" means so I'm just guessing you mean more rewards for RP like I already mentioned or the whole "mentality" thing that means nothing. If you can elaborate on that thatd be great.

You asked about my "whole 'mentality' thing," so I will answer.

Every day that BGTSCC is online, I consider it a gift, that from the hard work and investment of many others presently and in the past, I Steve, get to game out my D&D fantasy 24/7 with very little restriction to what role-play I wish to manifest...and all for essentially free!!!! I respect this gift, in principle, which informs my mentality. I therefore make the best of what I am given.

That does not preclude wanting more (selfishness), wanting ease of gain (laziness), or total fulfillment of my wants and desires (ego). But that is on me...and it should also be on every one else, individually. How are you, or I, or anyone actually helping to make the Server experience—in whatever avenue available to someone—better, first and foremost? Or are you just talking?

And speaking of talking, let's also look at how things are said, and how that communicates something positive, negative or simply editorializes to the point of absurdity:

...the leveling experience an absolute PITA. The redesign of Baldur's Gate has been the final nail in the coffin ...

...the XP penalty can mean hours of your time was absolutely worthless...Extremely demotivating.

Using a stick...dont beat with sticks.

I think rping leveling like this is stupid, boring and mind numbing.

... levelling...too slow and tedious here for me...I'll likely just decide that my time with BG was fun and full of good memories and friends and depart.

Leveling sucks here. Always has. The current state of things does not respect players' time investment in the slightest

...and punishing leveling experience is utter crap.

Shall I go on?

I agree, Leveling could be easier, or faster, or multi-faceted, or whatever makes one person(s) happier than another. But far too often, people are railing against something offered to them in good intention and those complaining are getting personal. How would you feel, if you spent 100 hours of your volunteer time trying to make something fairer or more balanced after learning that players found a way to "game the game" for greater profit than it was intended, and you made it in line with the overall principles, then those same players came at you saying "utter crap; stop hitting me with a stick; I threaten to leave!" ??

Look, yes, mistakes can and will be made. But please, put it into context of where you are at, what you are doing. You are in an open community that offers you something, a game. Just a game. It is not a threat to your existence, and that YOU or I or THEM choose to waste hours of RL time on it, is NOT THEIR FAULT.

My mentality is this: if you don't want to experience the "grind" of Leveling, don't do it. Don't spend your hours and hours trying to earn some nonsense points, and worse, do not spend hours trying to bitch about it not being "good enough" for you.

My mentality is also this: BGTSCC is for role-play, in-character story building and character development in the Forgotten Realms milieu. The act of Leveling is not role-play, because XP is an OOC construction made to reflect IC progression. If the desire of the Server design is to support more role-play, than many things DO HAVE TO CHANGE, because currently, solo OOC grind-lootz fest IS THE BEST PAYOUT. It should absolutely NOT be the best payout, for a RP server. So let's talk about how to do THIS.

And I agree, if you are going to play a game, for fun, it should be fun. But in a game like NWN2 on a PW like BGTSCC, that fun is tied to you, YOU, the player. Make it fun. If you don't like grinding, do not do it. Find something else that is fun to do. It is that simple. If you are bored, and grinding is the only thing you can think of to do, then please, do not complain that it is "hurting" you to be doing it. You are not required to level to play, to role-play, to have fun.

To say otherwise is disingenuous. If you enjoy grinding, do it without complaint. Or just don't do it. You are given that free choice!!!

Lastly, my mentality on Leveling is this (again): if you want role-play to matter on BGTSCC, and players want only to Level, then you tie Leveling to RP actions and activity, not grinding. And the result is more RP production. Period. You do not go making grinding levels easier or faster. All that does is get players to the same point, an endpoint that should matter for IC actions, but was instead gained through rather bogus OOC activity. A number without value.

If you want to argue that "real life time is valuable," yes it is. So spend it wisely. You are in control of your own time. BG Staff does not control this. Nor does BG Staff demand your suffering. Take control of your own actions.

Why does this all matter to me anyway, you may ask? Why don't I just let anyone have what they want, because "obviously" I have what I want (which is false, but yeah, let's stick with it...)? Because getting to 30, being 30, and in relation to the overall design of the Server and Content—areas/mobs/etc.—actually devalues 80% of the Server content. EC pointed this out as well (so if you do not respect me, maybe you respect him!) The faster you go to 30, the more Level 30s are played on BGTSCC, the more limits you put on the player, in terms of where to go and why to go there. This pretty much the wrong direction, right, to keep the entire server alive/active?!?

You might also want to say: "but faster/easier leveling means more players playing new toons, and thus all over the place for different CRs, Steve, you dummy!." I think that is a very false opinion/statement. What is far more likely is that you'll have more players simply leveling their brains out more and more, and less and less investment in story building and Character development with toons that last long enough to get to know, by other Characters, by other players. New build idea; race to the top. New build idea; race to the top. Rinse and repeat, over and over again.

I understand that that does hold the interest of likely 50% of the playerbase, and I respect that. But is that what BGTSCC is wanting to be? Do you have any respect for what BGTSCC wants to be? BGTSCC is NOT a democracy, even though it has a great community of invested players, invested people. I myself wish it was more a democracy, but hey...I'm also capable of realizing the "it's their world; I just game in it" is a way of dealing with the reality.

So maybe instead of complaining about Leveling on BGTSCC, you should actually directly and politely ask Endelyon and Deathgrowl what their vision for BGTSCC, and plan accordingly your RL time and interest. You can start by considering this, when you do:

[Young Werther]

As a server pleb I want a higher xp dole and more DM circuses. Moralizing my base wants doesn't change this.

[ILLY]

Yuri/Blaze is really the wrong person to throw accusations of "what are you doing to help" at, given he's one of the most proactive people I've met on the server who is creating roleplay for others. As as previous poster, moralizing is all fine and well but it doesn't change that a community is a group project no matter who is at the helm. It's something that is developed together.

[mrm3ntalist]

So maybe instead of complaining about Leveling on BGTSCC, you should actually directly and politely ask Endelyon and Deathgrowl what their vision for BGTSCC, and plan accordingly your RL time and interest. You can start by considering this, when you do:

Woa... I didnt know BGTSCC wants to reduce the server population. The devs could have started with that. A lot makes sense now. In that case use this https://nwnlist.herokuapp.com/ to find other nwn2 or nwn servers. I currently play on TRON which is a mature and chill server to play. It is NOT for those easily offended and is based on custom lore. The admin is one of the smartest persons i got to know and very brutal. He already permakilled two of my characters and he is currently very close in destroying our nature based guild

nwnee makes a killing as well with a lot of servers and very healthy population - https://nwn.beamdog.net/

In that case, you can increase the time to get to level 30 to a year, like steve suggested. That will help reduce the population.

[Tekill]

4 Years ago-
I'm hosting a tea party gala extravaganza this weekend!
Lots of RP experience for those wanting to level up!
Hardcore Rp'ers (that I approve of) only please. But otherwise all are welcome!

Now-
....hey, where is everyone?
Its the game mechanics fault- How could the staff have been so wrong?!

[Endelyon]

So maybe instead of complaining about Leveling on BGTSCC, you should actually directly and politely ask Endelyon and Deathgrowl what their vision for BGTSCC, and plan accordingly your RL time and interest. You can start by considering this, when you do:

Woa... I didnt know BGTSCC wants to reduce the server population. The devs could have started with that. A lot makes sense now. In that case use this https://nwnlist.herokuapp.com/ to find other nwn2 or nwn servers. I currently play on TRON which is a mature and chill server to play. It is NOT for those easily offended and is based on custom lore. The admin is one of the smartest persons i got to know and very brutal. He already permakilled two of my characters and he is currently very close in destroying our nature based guild

nwnee makes a killing as well with a lot of servers and very healthy population - https://nwn.beamdog.net/

In that case, you can increase the time to get to level 30 to a year, like steve suggested. That will help reduce the population.

To be clear, having a low population is not my "goal" for BGTSCC. I was pointing out that a declining server population is an inevitability regardless of what we do with our mechanics, and that even if the population gets low it will come with pros and cons and open up new opportunities. When further challenged about what those opportunities could possibly be, this is the list I gave in response.

If you look further up in the same conversation, I pointed out that I think we can easily get back into the 70+ numbers on weekends if we focus on expanding DM activity and community and staff engagement--which is the current plan. I think numbers like having 96/96 frequently again are simply not possible with the overall decline of the NWN2 community. We're simply not going to reach a higher population by making leveling faster, but if we focus on the things I mentioned we might be able to attract some old players to return.

The subtext also that was left out is that this remark was in direct response to someone saying that if I didn't listen to their really specific suggestions that we'd immediately lose all our players--a sentiment that I'll be quite blunt that I'm tired of being leveraged. Anyone who is playing here conditionally or legitimately not having fun anymore should consider taking some time to play some other games instead, and when they feel revitalized perhaps BGTSCC will be fun for them once more and we'll have some new content by then.

This is also not to say that the things we've discussed as staff in this thread won't be pursued. I still intend to look into exactly what I said all the way back on page 3, even though the conversation in the thread has run miles away from that by now.