Death exp condensed

[Hoihe]

I absolutly love the devils offering a chance between losing 500x/level or get out free.

The fun thing would be to add one point of evil if you deal with a devil successfully. Can't have a paladin or those darn do-gooders doing this without some taint to it!

Paladin/BG? Anyone?

[Sartain]

So long as the module runs a Skinner Box model (go out, kill respawning mobs, hope for good drops and indulge your addiction to the sweet *ding* of level-up) like the big MMOs, and it does to some extent, players will act like idiots and exploit the system. No matter what death-penalty is implemented (including none, or a buff), the knowledge that the endlessly respawning sacks of loot and XP are waiting out there will drive players to do inconsistent, powergamerish things because to some extent, we're all addicted to the rush finding a sweet item drop and the level up.
The only way to change that kind of behaviour in any serious degree is to a) have draconian rules and penalties. Only the "hardcore" stick it out and the "casual" players leave because they can't be bothered to make contingencies for their contingencies everytime they fight a kobold or enter a new area or b) do a complete redesign of module and server philosophy and get rid of the concept of respawning enemies and loot all together. When there's no digital fix to be had from rushing back to the same area after death, the behaviour stops. Essentially it's a cold turkey-treatment and again, a lot of players would probably leave.

[7threalm]

well its an rp server, and they let the grinder grind and the rp'ers rp, sometimes its between, and half the people that play are builders dm etc, if wanna take this super serious, you can always pay for a game that gives you a right to complain lol, i grind then i die then i rp sometimes i die its viscous cycle, most of the players have played most other mmo's, I came back from ddo, where i had top tier gear etc, but it just felt so bland, i acutally had an exploit for unlimited gold in that mmo and i still quit lol, and people pay for that stuff

I came for the roleplayers here and much better then u sux noobz 7 environment of mmo's, they downfall of most of it, is the people in charge of mmo's care about $$$ first, and thats not the case here, luna is saving grace of this game, and the time spent not geting paid is alot.

[Elthan]

I find the arguement of cheapened death from reducing the penality to be somewhat hiliarious.

No pc ever really dies unless he actively worked towards it.
It's a gigantic hole in rp that people can be wrested from death's embrace for the cost of 4-5 potions.

XP penalities are alright to have but they are an OOC deterant - grinding to regain the xp is an OOC aftermath.
increasing the penality or reducing it is an OOC measure which holds no improvement to the server as an RP server.

[Hoihe]

Apparently the player being raised but some bug prevents him to return to his original area bug has been fixed, or worked around if any.

Myrkul now recognises the spell hitting the player once and such goes:

"There is a mistake, you are alive."

and lets the player resurrect without penalty at their level 1 starting spot.

Just throwing this up.

[gundar]

XP penalities are alright to have but they are an OOC deterant - grinding to regain the xp is an OOC aftermath.
increasing the penality or reducing it is an OOC measure which holds no improvement to the server as an RP server.

The arguement that says "larger penalties ultimately adds to more grinding to make up for the penalty" and thus has a negative impact to RP, is a stronger one than the arguement that is made on behalf of caution and prudence being an appropriate part of the RP experience.

[Sartain]

XP penalities are alright to have but they are an OOC deterant - grinding to regain the xp is an OOC aftermath.
increasing the penality or reducing it is an OOC measure which holds no improvement to the server as an RP server.

The arguement that says "larger penalties ultimately adds to more grinding to make up for the penalty" and thus has a negative impact to RP, is a stronger one than the arguement that is made on behalf of caution and prudence being an appropriate part of the RP experience.

Personally I'd much rather see a penalty in form of a debuff or a determined length of time the character in question has to spend in the Fugue or similiar. There's not a lot of RP material in a lump sum XP loss, a lot more in a debuff that makes you unable to go fighting, or even in not being able to log a specific character on for a while.

[Blame The Rogue]

I like the penalty as is

a debuff wouldn't work anyway, or your participation in a dm event would end the first time you died. death during dm events happens often

[Snarfy]

a debuff wouldn't work anyway, or your participation in a dm event would end the first time you died. death during dm events happens often

It happens often, usually, because players try to act like super heroes and get in over their head. Either that or lag. In any case, participation in a DM event should end if you die... But noooooo, people just get rez'd and dust off like nothing happened. At least a debuff might dissuade players from zerging back into an event carelessly, and it might even inspire some to RP a debuff as if it was an injury.

[Blame The Rogue]

and some characters play cautiously and use tactics and still die during dm events

[Sartain]

Obviously, there's going to be about as many viewpoints on this there are participants in the debate

For my part, I don't feel that players are entitled to no-risk DM participation, so I don't see the problem with risking getting a de-buff from participating in a DM event or being unable to participate because your dead character is locked in the Fugue for an hour. Again, without knowing the mechanics behind it, it could be a matter of a major debuff being applied if you come back through life through Myrkul, and a minor debuff (or none) being applied if you're raised/ressurected.
My personal feeling is that the XP penalty for dying and coming back to life does more to prompt RP-less grinding than prevent it.

[Nodin]

It may not be fun to die and I did nerdrage pretty often myself when I started out here, each time I died and lost a big chunk of XP. But eventually I realized that it makes for a more interesting and challenging gameplay and even with how often people run ahead suicidally as it is, I can only imagine that it would get even worse with lower risk.

Losing a big chunk XP on death creates a more serious atmosphere around hunting and strongly encourages you to find someone to party with, since then your chances of losing that XP on death becomes lower and your chances of RP'ing with someone increases, which in turn will actually let you gain more XP anyway, rather then soloing.

Also consider how challenging it is soloing and how rewarding it can be to clear out all the chests in a dungeon by yourself. It wouldn't make sense if you had next to nothing to lose - that's not how things work around here and I don't really see any reason to lower the XP loss.

yes, 2 hours in sewers as lvl 1 drow wiz and still 0xp.. at least 5 deaths per kill... yep, not worth playing on this server is starting to seap into me, why? when i started *developing* ideas about melee half-dragon character, i read here on forum the powerbuild rule, *banned* rdd, not-compatibility with original DnD rules (powerbuilds) etcetera and my joy of playing what i want was lost..

i always had my way in dnd games through normal and then farer in the game by powerbuild characters, that dosnt mean i would not RP... so then i am further punished by not alowed to have strong powerbuild/dmg output character (i dont care for pvp, i am pure pve player) and still be able RP properly.. cause i cant, for example, play my power-hungry half-dragon/rdd greatsword fighter (with full +8 str) cause *it would ruin whole server RP*?! well it ruins my playing as a whole - it wouldnt be so frustrating, if i was able to level/grind at least lvl 3-4 on my drow wiz (still 0xp)... i dont know anyone here, dont know shedule for RP events, neither i would participate (id like some lvls and more spells/abilities before social activity-my characters would like some more power to survive before engaging in a party or dungeon).. but i suppose after so many *banned*, prohibited and powerbuild rule limited options that i read about on this forum, i really started thinking of giving up playing here.. loosing my excitement to play here and so on..

Suggestion:

Levels 1-3: 0 xp penalty

Levels 4-20: 50 xp/level

Levels 21+: 100xp/level (Once you've gone epic, you're epic!)

i would very much like that, especialy:
Levels 1-3: 0 xp penalty
Levels 4-20: 50 xp/level


the issue here is far more then simply about xp loss for death - pure classes are supposed to be played for the *feel* of the class
metaclasses should by played more rarely and for the different *flavor* in them (favored soul etc.)
and powerbuilds are supposed to be for those experienced and well oriented players, whom do like *fast kills*, so they can have more time on RP, PvP, crafting (which i hope would be fully implemented in the future), have even more time for friends, exploring, guild-play etc and so on...

-so sry, but i am loosing my head in these 1000 feet high obstacles, to by allowed to play by myself and what i want
-its the PvP, in my opinion, which ruins it.. WHY? its simple: balancing for pvp ruins powerbuilding for pve (or in reverse: *unbalanced* powerbuilding ruins PvP), that is proved fact - i fully understand balancing (even if i am against it), but its against the original DnD rules to bann/limit/forbid playing for that which is aproved and officialy released under DnD (wizards of the coast) rules/games/products

[honeyspell]

I agree 100% that you should have 0 xp loss at level 1-3, but as you know this is the largest server on nwn2, so there is for the most part as you see by the dates on this, it is not a priority and "don't let the door hit you on the way out" would be the attitude here as to fixing or changing this issue. I am guessing they average 48 to 58 players here, so they will not be changing soon.

Now I know that my little group tried to play drow, and gave up after a week, and we had a few people, and it was still just to hard. The best way around it, which is ridiculous imo, is to level above ground and then take half xp at like level 8 or 10 and rcr to a drow. It should not be this way, but even losing half your xp and the cl2, or what ever a drow is, it is still easier to level above.

I now have been playing my drow for a 2 weeks and due to death xp loss lack of areas and a few other things I am at 1200 xp, still level 1, my other friends will not be coming back to playing drow, 3 left the server and will not be coming back so our party of 8 will be 5, with 2 hating the grind that you have to do here. 1 loves the challenge. The other rage quits once a day, but comes back like hr or so later. I play because at this time this is where we have decided to make our dnd home.

Maybe if enough people jump on board with the leveling issue for new players especially at level 1 to 3 or 4 we might see a change, but as this server seems to be made up primarily of vets and long time players who can not relate or care about how us Noobs" feel I don't see it.

This server could be so much better if it would help new players in the early stages, this would add so much, instead of a bunch of alts and rerolls actually have new players with new ideas and different ways to rp and maybe even get some more builders to finish all the needed areas.

[Luna]

Its definitely harder in the underdark.
On the surface if your non ecl race you can easily level up without even doing combat.
If your ECL 1 on the surface, I know you can get dang close to 3000 xp with the quests around baldurs gate.
ECL1 might require a little bit of combat.

We have tried to make it easy to start a new character, but all the effort was put into the surface and not the underdark.

You should have no rest timer as well at level 1, so flee and rest at will.

[edit] Also if your new, I would just recommend playing on the surface to get affiliated with things. It's a lot easier than starting in the underdark.

[Nodin]

thank you guys, i didnt think of that

i was planing to play above sometime later, to know both sides of the coin.. seams like i would be looking around under the sun sooner than expected
oh well, its shame (hard UD) but what the hell.. it gave me at least idea on some handicaped/mute charachter for future RP