Make Warlock application only

[Simian]

Oh, Warlocks CAN gain their powers through their bloodline, heritage or so. It is just that PACTS, and certain PACTS with DEVILS should be far more common.

[stevebarracuda]

I agree, Void, that the angle of education coupled with instituting required Pacts would bring Warlocks inline with Clerics & Paladins, which have requirements to adhere to otherwise lose their powers.

However, to what extent doing this eliminate players that want to role-play an asshat Warlock? I hope it will.

Still, in general, it seems this thread is just another flavor of "Ban the Gray Orc," "What's Wrong with the Palemaster?" and "Why are Necromancers Allowed to Each Lunch at the FAI?"

Considering this is billed as a medium RP server, I wonder if a fundamental shift in mentality needs to occur, before one class is given special considerations for creation, when it's rather easy to argue that for all classes and races, besides Human Fighter or Human Rogue.

[mrieder79]

LOL! Asshat Warlock! Best PrC ever!!!!

[Charraj]

and for the RP IC part... we dont have it now.. why would it change?

Well, that's the problem. I'd like for that to change, and for my part I'm going to try to RP more ICly.

[TheVoid]

I agree, Void, that the angle of education coupled with instituting required Pacts would bring Warlocks inline with Clerics & Paladins, which have requirements to adhere to otherwise lose their powers.

However, to what extent doing this eliminate players that want to role-play an asshat Warlock? I hope it will.

Still, in general, it seems this thread is just another flavor of "Ban the Gray Orc," "What's Wrong with the Palemaster?" and "Why are Necromancers Allowed to Each Lunch at the FAI?"

Considering this is billed as a medium RP server, I wonder if a fundamental shift in mentality needs to occur, before one class is given special considerations for creation, when it's rather easy to argue that for all classes and races, besides Human Fighter or Human Rogue.

Rules don't stop griefers, DMs do with a banhammer.

The other benefit of instituting a guide for warlocks in particular (remember this is a conversation about warlocks so I want to stay on topic) is that it holds the player liable for their character's actions. Ie; a paladin cannot make an excuse that they did not know raping women of heathen gods that oppose Torm is adhering to their role, right?

It helps prevent or discourages extreme departures/interpretations of the content. If we do nothing than it opens up the above for these ill-informed interpretations even though the majority of us will universally agree that raping heathen women of other gods that oppose Torm, is NOT AT ALL in TORM'S DOGMA nor expected conduct of a Paladin of Torm... at least I hope it isn't or torm would be in violation of the server rules and banned by the Overgods.

Also, most of the more egregious examples of warlocks who are unwilling to play their role to any standard is very very few. Most everyone who plays a warlock has some knowledge of the class but could benefit from getting additional reference materials to give them guidance when in doubt.

[scriver]

Oh, Warlocks CAN gain their powers through their bloodline, heritage or so. It is just that PACTS, and certain PACTS with DEVILS should be far more common.

To encourage devil pacts, maybe give them a small gameplay bonus from the feat? Or would that be to generous?

[Blunkanthrust]

I think the idea of the feat is more symbolic of their chosen warlock pact, in the same way that a cleric chooses domains. Unless I misunderstood the conversation they would take it as a blank feat and then still get to choose their level 1 feat.

[mrieder79]

Oh, Warlocks CAN gain their powers through their bloodline, heritage or so. It is just that PACTS, and certain PACTS with DEVILS should be far more common.

To encourage devil pacts, maybe give them a small gameplay bonus from the feat? Or would that be to generous?

I don't know if it would be a good idea, but it would definitely be effective in increasing the devil-pacted warlocks.

[WeWhoEat]

Oh, Warlocks CAN gain their powers through their bloodline, heritage or so. It is just that PACTS, and certain PACTS with DEVILS should be far more common.

To encourage devil pacts, maybe give them a small gameplay bonus from the feat? Or would that be to generous?

I don't know if it would be a good idea, but it would definitely be effective in increasing the devil-pacted warlocks.

I am normally against such things, but it certainly would be nice to bring numbers more in-line with canon. And since we are not going with warlocks as an application class, there is no way to enforce a quota. Really, the carrot becomes the only viable solution in such a case, as opposed to the stick.

That being said, it would need to be something significant, yet not game-breaking. And something that works on all builds. Something like +1 to Lore is not gonna cut it. Maybe give Devil-Pacted warlocks Toughness or something. A terribly OOC bribe to fix a terribly OOC situation.

[Knightmare]

I am not sure warlocks need more, but if someone insists on giving them something, perhaps it should be something in extension of this discussion i.e. a heritage feat.

Evil warlocks could get Fiendish Power (http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Fiendish_Power)
Good/Neutral could get Fey Power (http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Fey_Power)

[Hitman Hard]

But how does making a warlock KOS promote RP for that character, I'm sure it would make less people want to play one

Well this thread is organic and is mainly discussion, people have their various opinions even if some advocate for KOS rules on Warlocks, they won't even enter into the world without the say so of the DM team so I wouldn't worry about that. On the other hand, you yourself on your warlock did PK my level 1 warlock (granted you didn't know I was level 1 or that it would kill him) without any RP warnings, or setting to hostile, during a player event, (based on a comment in this thread) designed to test the public reaction to warlocks, the event was developing quite nicely at the time, it certainly put me off wanting to play one again.

Yes, I had a few drinks OOC that night and just got caught up in the moment. Sorry, i don't ever do that... but there is no way me doing that one thing led to you not wanting to play a Warlock.

[Hitman Hard]

I'm Devil-pacted, i showed a black banner with a symbol of a clawed fist gripping a skull to a fellow warlock. I went on to discuss the god Asmodeus a bit. Later that day, I run into five or six warlocks. One who said he worshipped another devil and planned on starting a coven, to which i asked if he referred to the devil who created hellfire. He nodded. Which means I kinda want to backtrack now and worship Mephistopheles in order to join the coven. I have been thinking about joining/starting one for a few weeks. And my character has a pact insidious for the record.

[Hitman Hard]

I had an interesting RP experience a few days ago.

[TheVoid]

Well using the pact feats to unlock one the PRC's is incentive enough in my opinion.

Hellfire warlock should only be available to warlocks with a Faustian pact under Mephistopheles. That would be a possibility to get an increase in faustian pact warlocks which are more common than the rest.

I also think every warlock enthusiast would agree that Hellfire warlock should NOT be available unless you are a faustian pact warlock related too Mephistopheles. There is specific canon lore about this PrC in every reference to hellfire and mephistopheles. Saying otherwise is like saying that Eldath shares the domain of WAR with Tempus....

Adding an additional requirement for the custom Faustian warlock creation feat for Hellfire warlock PrC is probably a good way to encourage hellfire warlocks to venerate the actual lore around the role without policing everyone or skewing balance due to additional incentives that are not really based on lore or how the class was created mechanically.

[Hitman Hard]

This sounds fun, can't wait for the pact choices at the Nexus.