Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World BGTSCC Discussion Forum
https://bgtscc.net/
This falls into the current unequal situation where Underdarkers have to give up a big portion of their areas but surfacers don't have to do the same. The north is the surface's Upperdark and should be treated as such in pvp rules.
What? How'd this come about (in your opinion)?
EDIT: Sshamath is located in the Middledark (as per source book lore, as I've seen stated).The Underdark is divided into three general levels.
The upper-Underdark is close to the surface, has considerable interaction (trade, raids, or conquest) with surface races, and is mainly inhabited by drow, beholders, dwarves, mind flayers, svirfneblin, and—under cities—wererats. Water and food are relatively abundant, and adaptation to darkness is mild.
The inhabitants of the middle Underdark tend to see surface races as slaves. These include drow, lone aboleths, cloakers, derro, mind flayers, svirfneblin, and kuo-toas. Water and food are difficult to find.
The lower Underdark is incredibly strange, filled with alien societies and bizarre cultures, hostile to any unlike them, ruled by aboleths, cloakers, derro, and mindflayers. Food and water are very rare, so the races here prey upon each other for survival. Adaptation to darkness is often extreme, with new and peculiar senses appearing in some monsters.
All levels contain evil humanoids, usually as slaves in civilized cities.
Because it is a border area. A border area that, like the Upperdark, is far from the reaches of civilized society. Baldur's Gate and the other cities have no reach there. It's more or less lawless wilds. It should not be a safe area. And, again, it's unfair to UD characters that they have to give up areas to surfacers, but surfacers do not have to do the same.
The Upperdark was never classified as a UD character only, or especially, Area, iirc.
I mean, I'd totally be game for that. Cities and patrolled areas should be safe, wilds should be dangerous.
As far as I am concerned, you are free to repeat whichever lie soothes thy sore posterior.
The server is big, it has a large quantity of areas, and it is entirely possible to travel for hours and not meet even one player along the way. This holds true even when the server sits at full capacity. And yet, and yet, the number of areas on this server are very limited indeed, and especially so when it comes to areas where one is not instantly interrupted by randomly spawning mobs. In my opinion, the server would be much improved if there were more areas of peaceful wilderness, places where people could just put out their own tents and campfires. It would even offer a possibility to have those 'guild' areas on a small plot of their own, but mechanical limitations will always exist, even with the recently enough split servers. Thus, the interaction between players will largely focus around a small handful of campfires here and there on the server. This brings us right back to my supposedly anecdotal story, because it was not some one incident, it was literally a repeating source of complaints on this server. You had two groups of players. The first were the followers of Shevarash, the black archers, who are expected to strike first against the drow and the very lore of Forgotten Realms states that only Evermeet is safe from the constant stream of Drow attacks. Thus the number of elves in the realms is steadily decreasing, because more and more elves are choosing to flee to Evermeet. A human settlement might forget a drow attack in but a few generations, but because elves live much longer than humans, the 80 year gap between two drow surface raids is less than a quarter of a moon elf's lifespan. From an elven perspective, the ancient war still wages on. The situation is not helped by the fact that drow are known to use whatever means available to strike against their surface cousins, and these means include feigned attempts claims of refuge. And the second group are the drow who worship Eilistraee, who wish to flee the Underdark in favour of a peaceful life on the surface. Therefore, from a Forgotten Realms lore perspective, these two groups are like oil and water, they do not mix no matter how hard you try to stir.
Elsewhere is not here. This is Forgotten Realms campaign setting, and a Black Archer would not wait and see what a drow is about. He would let that arrow fly without a single blink or hesitation. Drow are an evil monster race, and should be treated like an evil monster race and attacked -- or fled from -- on the first sight, unless the encounter itself is somehow spectacularly strange and unexpected. A follower of Eilistraee should expect to be attacked on the surface, because the deep seated lore based hatred does not vanish with but a snap of fingers and the first 'friendly' greeting of a supposedly 'good' drow. So when you are attacked on the surface, flee. If you must fight, defeat but do not slay, tend their wounds and then flee. It is going to take time, you might not succeed, but eventually even a Black Archer of Shevarash might hold that arrow long enough to entertain the idea that there might be a 'good' drow who wishes to escape the horrors of the Underdark. If the role-play is good, this is something that is not achieved in a week, a month, or even in years. A single good deed does not overcome a millennia of warfare.
Then allow me to point back at your own words, how these elven players are just griefers and bullies who shoot on sight.
If this change goes through, things will barely change, especially if it's implemented after the 100% rcr. And there's always the option to revert it if things get too out of hand, don't be afraid of change, it's how good things happen.Actually, drow heading to the surface is fairly normal. Staying there is somewhat less so, until you start considering the Eilistraeen and Vhaeraunite communities. (Heck, Rhifox's history feats make explicit reference to such communities existing amidst the remnants of Cormanthyr.)Calen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:28 pm After reading this topic ,I think it's not a good idea to give Drow this OOC KOS immunity in the form of a neutral area.
A drow heading to the surface is not normal , mechanical wise there are a limited amount of maps giving a wrong image how long this journey actually is.
Are you suggesting we should mechanically represent fatigue? Because I don't mind.You don't have to eat/drink/sleep and oocly you know what creatures are weak, the UD is a lot more dangerous than that.
Can't have demigods. Can't. Hmm.The epic levels are more there for gameplay and should not be taken serious in terms of what your character is, we can't have so many demi gods running around.
I would like to agree with this. I really would.The normal reaction of the majority of the surface creatures is to kill the drow, while evil characters enslave you.
Sitting with a drow near a shrine or campfire is being oocly nice to the player, given that it has little to do with the setting.
It's not D&D like to be a non racist character that judges every one individually by today's western moral standards, while thinking tieflings/grey orcs are nice and a drow can be trusted.
) played by one of the very few people here who seem willing to engage in long-term conflict.Your logic here is... all over the place. Are you sure everyone takes tieflings for mechanical benefit? I've seen tieflings who were, at best, ambivalent to their strong DEX/INT, and I've seen (and am playing!) tieflings who actively defy their weak CHA score by playing things like sorcerers.Further more allowing this with Drow will result in an infestation, just like we're having too many tieflings running around.
Players like to pick what is mechanically good as this server rewards it, the 3/20 rule and some homebrew changes enhance this while RP skills/stats are downplayed.
Report. Report. Report.It will do the server good to enforce RP a bit more and have DM's sometimes take a look at what people are doing.
And here we get to the laughable part, the reason I decided to reply to your post in the first place.Allowing Drow to have a neutral area in Soubar is going against the setting bit most of all will cause more problems than it will do good.
Again, this is a good starting point for a new character, but one cannot just give their character an amnesia every time they meet a decent tiefling/grey orc/drow. Because at the tenth time one interacts with them it is only natural they start questioning the previous prejudice, unless they have their own reasons and in which case is up to them and how they play their character. None of the two groups should be judged for how they choose to play their character as both approaches are valid.Calen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:28 pm The normal reaction of the majority of the surface creatures is to kill the drow, while evil characters enslave you.
Sitting with a drow near a shrine or campfire is being oocly nice to the player, given that it has little to do with the setting.
It's not D&D like to be a non racist character that judges every one individually by today's western moral standards, while thinking tieflings/grey orcs are nice and a drow can be trusted.
If you mean for the DM to check people are following the rules, not griefing and keeping it civil and IC I absolutely agree with you. If you mean the DM should step in and give a wrist slap to everyone who is being civil with drow I do not. A DM doesn't know the bio and RP of every single character on the server, unless they took the time to read bio and diary (assuming there is one). Now, it would be frustrating if someone who has no idea what a character has been through and what their moral values are tells the player to OOC stop what they are doing because lore says we should all shoot drow on sight or run away. True, a DM may ask questions which, by all means, I would be more than happy to answer but this is something that takes time to be done for every single character talking with a drow.It will do the server good to enforce RP a bit more and have DM's sometimes take a look at what people are doing.
Allowing Drow to have a neutral area in Soubar is going against the setting bit most of all will cause more problems than it will do good.
We are not in disagreement on this front. All of my attempts at crossplay were made with the understanding that the characters could die at any time.Calen wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:19 am Just to address a few of the above post.
- Drow on the surface is lore appropriate if the server is allowing to deal with the drow in a lore appropriate way and the drow is allowed to be a drow in a lore appropriate way. This will lead to conflict based roleplay which may involve pvp or perma deaths of either sides and in general stuff that is not for this PG 13 server, especially with followers of Vhaeraun .
There are areas where drow raids are more common , just as followers of Vhaeraun and Eilistraee can be active on the surface and more often than not killing each other as well.
Just a 'I follow Eilistraee and I am a good drow' doesn't mean you won't get an arrow in your head the term 'good drown' and 'Eilistraee' isn't all that known.
If a Drow has a good reason to set out on a dangerous journey to the surface and rp this out they can do so ,though at any given moment at any given place they should be allowed to be killed simply based on them being a drow.
Without godmodding both the existence and behavior of NPCs, it becomes difficult to determine how much contact one has had with a minority segment of the population, or what that contact entailed. As such, I am wary of such assumptions when determining my characters' attitudes towards such. This becomes even more relevant when considering the fact that many of my PCs start out with sheltered upbringings - either growing up in small villages or being somehow isolated from most of the people in their hometowns.- It's correct that we're a small representation of the coast, if your character met one nice tiefling he/she might rp favorable towards them if that is the only tieflings she/he ever met.
This argument goes both ways however, the majority of the tieflings end up being evil or at the very least questionable by nature duo to their heritage and upbringing.
Your character while being on the coast met a lot more tieflings than just the few at the campfire and thus that should be taken into account as well RP wise unless you wish to cherry pick your RP and ignore the setting.
The same can be said for racism , D&D is xenophobic and racists by nature nor is it evil to perceive other races like that.
(...)
Now RP wise the farm lands are bigger, there are a lot more fist and the place is crowded. Having four tieflings that look like that stand at a campfire is rare and will cause some commotion especially after the devil invasion.
True, and this was a significant contributor to the initial attitudes of my less educated PCs. (Unless they also happened to be utterly oblivious to most things, like Pixanie. 8)) However, such fear was typically mitigated by the fact that nobody else - not the Fist, not the City Watch, not the legions of veteran adventurers - in the area seemed particularly hostile to the scary monsters. They're entering a strange new world, and those of them who choose it will typically need to accept that not everything is going to work the way they're used to. Maybe not at first, but eventually.But most of all a tiefling with claws/horns and a tail will scare the living hell out of the average commoner t, you look like the embodiment of what is evil in D&D.
For a tiefling to survive with a tail and horns is exceptionally rare, you're easily mistaken for a fiend or what not.
I honestly don't think they're as strong as you make them out to be. Occasionally easier to build with, since they can more easily hit the high ability score thresholds required for some feats and PrCs. But I have rarely seen a scenario where an ECL race wins a fight because it's an ECL race.- A good chunk of the player base rolls tieflings because they are a strong race to pick and have a tail, it is a plausible argument that this will happen as well with drow.
I guess that part of my post was more a whimsical jab at BG's area design, and how adventurers who are allegedly level 15 can (sometimes singlehandedly!) defeat boss mobs well above their expected CR. I generally agree with this part of your post, too.- The issue with perceiving your character as a demi god and one that has slain 100+ dragons is that you are all this until the DM decides you're not.
It's not uncommon that a single fist officer just knocks down a 'demi god' with one good hit or a DM spawns a balor that just happen to obliterate your PC.
If your PC is a known demi god a DM would not have Billy the random fist officer steps up to you and taunt you like you're his ........
Further more in P&P a DM controls how you level, here I can stand all day at the campfire and end up level 30 if I keep it on log ago and go solo a Draco lich.
This is something the DM team could clarify m in my eyes anything you do +20 is pretty should not be taken into account by a DM in terms of events.
Ultimately, there are as many motives in this discussion as there are participants.What I read from all of this is not 'We want conflict based RP with the surface' or 'we want stricter RP rules with IC consequences' .
No, this is about having Eilistraen Drow on the surface with out having them to suffer the consequences of being a drow.
), more Middledark areas please. 
