Underdark General Discussion Thread

[dean1986]

I would like to see the bebilith area walk mesh vastly improved. Extend the lizard caves Perhaps a deeper cavern. Bring the monk shop to the ud. Allow us to sell traps in gloura's. More interesting and increased quantity of epic areas. Alternative areas to those that breech in epic. Make other areas more viable to allow more Duegar to be in the ud. The main training places are killing Duegar. Allow a rest point mid-way through the fire goblin territory. Edit the illithid hive to make it a viable place to go as as it stands at present it's vastly over powered for the rewards and fun it yeilds. South sshamath slums improved or make the area a viable place to go venture/RP. Decrease the weight of the beetle shells/or move the npc back to varalla's it's to far to travel. Not everyone is a half orc 20 str toon. Remove the mushrooms from the beetle area. It's over kill.

[Rainbow Prism]

We do not have lizards. If you are talking about troglodytes, we have nice cave that allows to either move through or go deeper for reward.

Without mushrooms we will not have area at all. Or were you talking about myconid spawns? Just buy potions. A periodical investment of 200 gold pieces will make them not too challenging, just like the rest of denizens.

We do not have beetle shells. Just pincers. We are not here to farm gold just like on surface.

Why Underdark should have monk shops? Monks in UD are snowflakes and should not be treated as equals in options.

[dean1986]

We do not have lizards. If you are talking about troglodytes, we have nice cave that allows to either move through or go deeper for reward.

Without mushrooms we will not have area at all. Or were you talking about myconid spawns? Just buy potions. A periodical investment of 200 gold pieces will make them not too challenging, just like the rest of denizens.

We do not have beetle shells. Just pincers. We are not here to farm gold just like on surface.

Why Underdark should have monk shops? Monks in UD are snowflakes and should not be treated as equals in options.

There reptiles, lizards whatever. Nothing wrong with asking for the area to return to what it used to be like? If I wanted to farm gold i'd make an fs/bg and go farm the fiend. It's meant for low levels rainbow. As for monks they do exist within Lolths web and are present in ud.

[Rainbow Prism]

Monks of Lolth, like several percents of total worshippers? Lawful alignment is very rare one for drow.

Now, in addition to environment of Sshamath that suppresses the religion and local populace's fixed disdain of faith and clergy, having monks of Lolth is like having snow in Neverwinter.


As for beetles, they are still fair game. 150 gold pieces are available to any first level character that gets idea to mix effects of two relatively cheap potions and get immense for begginers AC.

Old 'gold farming' is quite an issue, since UD is already lawless zone when DMs and setting rules are concerned and in old day absolutely nothing would prevent anyone from standing in middle of zone and AFK grind.

[dean1986]

Monks of Lolth, like several percents of total worshippers? Lawful alignment is very rare one for drow.

Now, in addition to environment of Sshamath that suppresses the religion and local populace's fixed disdain of faith and clergy, having monks of Lolth is like having snow in Neverwinter.


As for beetles, they are still fair game. 150 gold pieces are available to any first level character that gets idea to mix effects of two relatively cheap potions and get immense for begginers AC.

Old 'gold farming' is quite an issue, since UD is already lawless zone when DMs and setting rules are concerned and in old day absolutely nothing would prevent anyone from standing in middle of zone and AFK grind.

I'm not sure you quite get it. Sshamath is a trade city so yes I would imagine you'd have monk shops. In fact being a magical thriving trade center for the Ud i'd imagine they would cater to anyone and anything even more so than the surface. A cosmopolitan so to speak. Yes monks are lawful. They would be lawful to her bidding. If she required an act no matter how chaotic it may look outwardly that is issued by the clergy then that would be deemed lawful no matter how chaotic it was the monk must follow her teachings of law. They are like her spiders. Lawful to her.

[Rainbow Prism]

Monks of Lolth, like several percents of total worshippers? Lawful alignment is very rare one for drow.

Now, in addition to environment of Sshamath that suppresses the religion and local populace's fixed disdain of faith and clergy, having monks of Lolth is like having snow in Neverwinter.


As for beetles, they are still fair game. 150 gold pieces are available to any first level character that gets idea to mix effects of two relatively cheap potions and get immense for begginers AC.

Old 'gold farming' is quite an issue, since UD is already lawless zone when DMs and setting rules are concerned and in old day absolutely nothing would prevent anyone from standing in middle of zone and AFK grind.

I'm not sure you quite get it. Sshamath is a trade city so yes I would imagine you'd have monk shops. In fact being a magical thriving trade center for the Ud i'd imagine they would cater to anyone and anything. A cosmopolitan. Yes monks are lawful. They would be lawful to her bidding. If she required a chaotic act issued by the clergy then that would be deemed lawful no matter how chaotic it was the monk must follow her teachings of law. They are like her spiders. Lawful to her.

Please do not grab at "it's the trade city" thing whenever player tries to voice minority's concern. Trade city works for majority, not minority. Especially, evil trade city that kills freeloaders who don't bring money to coffers. Artifacts do circulate in trade, but main game are artifacts scavenged in environs and later mass produced for benefits of city rulers and defenders, which will be Netherese and Ogghran ruins.

Ironically, Lolth's temple is is still standing in Sshamath because of trade, because having priests and clerics locked up in small room in chains to work over needed for wizards divine magic items is not as profitable as actually giving some space and tolerate their presence with marginal existence.


As for philosophy of Lolth's faith and dogma, here is a thing.

There are reasons for alignment one step rule of clergy.
First, the servant must be close to alignment to understand and appreciate the dogma.
Second, deities are picky about their servants, needing strong belief and devotion.

Now, speaking of Lolth, one of the most vile and chaotic goddesses, to whom only handful of zealots will honestly say they love her ways. Immense amount of servants and worshippers of her are serving out of fear and possible rewards of personal power.

Ways of Lolth, her tenets are set as chaotic murderous schemes for personal gain. There is no law in her ways. In fact, her ways say to betray, to kill in her name, seize power, conquer, etc., etc. Not much basis to have lawful servants. Chaos is something that makes her proud of strong drow champions (until she is not bored with them and replaces by other).

Lawful alignment does not understand well and hardly tries to do anything with chaotic religions, that is why you hardly see monks of elven clerics and so much more clerics of lawful and neutral gods.

[dean1986]

Monks of Lolth, like several percents of total worshippers? Lawful alignment is very rare one for drow.

Now, in addition to environment of Sshamath that suppresses the religion and local populace's fixed disdain of faith and clergy, having monks of Lolth is like having snow in Neverwinter.


As for beetles, they are still fair game. 150 gold pieces are available to any first level character that gets idea to mix effects of two relatively cheap potions and get immense for begginers AC.

Old 'gold farming' is quite an issue, since UD is already lawless zone when DMs and setting rules are concerned and in old day absolutely nothing would prevent anyone from standing in middle of zone and AFK grind.

I'm not sure you quite get it. Sshamath is a trade city so yes I would imagine you'd have monk shops. In fact being a magical thriving trade center for the Ud i'd imagine they would cater to anyone and anything. A cosmopolitan. Yes monks are lawful. They would be lawful to her bidding. If she required a chaotic act issued by the clergy then that would be deemed lawful no matter how chaotic it was the monk must follow her teachings of law. They are like her spiders. Lawful to her.

Please do not grab at "it's the trade city" thing whenever player tries to voice minority's concern. Trade city works for majority, not minority. Especially, evil trade city that kills freeloaders who don't bring money to coffers. Artifacts do circulate in trade, but main game are artifacts scavenged in environs and later mass produced for benefits of city rulers and defenders, which will be Netherese and Ogghran ruins.

Ironically, Lolth's temple is is still standing in Sshamath because of trade, because having priests and clerics locked up in small room in chains to work over needed for wizards divine magic items is not as profitable as actually giving some space and tolerate their presence with marginal existence.


As for philosophy of Lolth's faith and dogma, here is a thing.

There are reasons for alignment one step rule of clergy.
First, the servant must be close to alignment to understand and appreciate the dogma.
Second, deities are picky about their servants, needing strong belief and devotion.

Now, speaking of Lolth, one of the most vile and chaotic goddesses, to whom only handful of zealots will honestly say they love her ways. Immense amount of servants and worshippers of her are serving out of fear and possible rewards of personal power.

Ways of Lolth, her tenets are set as chaotic murderous schemes for personal gain. There is no law in her ways. In fact, her ways say to betray, to kill in her name, seize power, conquer, etc., etc. Not much basis to have lawful servants. Chaos is something that makes her proud of strong drow champions (until she is not bored with them and replaces by other).

Lawful alignment does not understand well and hardly tries to do anything with chaotic religions, that is why you hardly see monks of elven clerics and so much more clerics of lawful and neutral gods.

No prism you voice the minority by shooting everyone elses suggestions down but yourself. They exist and there is nothing you can say that will alter that. Who are you to say that sshamath can not sell trinkets such as this. Monks of Lloth exist. End of. No and No?

[Rainbow Prism]

One drow trader in Sshamath to another.

"Hey, do you know?"
"What?"
"There are some weirdos that fight with bare fists, sticks and some other stupid uneffective weapons."
"Yeah, the freaks come and go."
"There are not much of them. Actually, like several in generation. How about we make some shop for goods only they can use? If suddenly there is explosion of their numbers we will be rich!"


Please, use common sense.

[Servin]

I am therefore I agree with dean1986. So to comment on what you say:

Whatever.

[Darksider_war]

I agree with Servin and Dean: monks of Lolth DO exist. There aren't that many of them, but they exist. Your reasoning about Lawful followers of chaotic deities is easily disputed by canon lore, considering that Sune (which is Chaotic Good and rather fickle) has lawful good paladins. Besides, the "one step away" regulation only holds true for DIVINE CLASSES, like blackguards, clerics, favored souls and the like. There is nothing that prevents a chaotic evil guy from worshipping Tyr, and...uh-oh, there is a fallen paladin of Tyr in Waterdeep's canon lore that happens to be Chaotic Evil and a blackguard of Cyric, despite him deluding himself to believe that he is still a follower of Tyr

Ironically, Lolth's temple is is still standing in Sshamath because of trade, because having priests and clerics locked up in small room in chains to work over needed for wizards divine magic items is not as profitable as actually giving some space and tolerate their presence with marginal existence.

Speaking from the perspective of Server Lore (which departs from canon lore a bit), the temple of Lolth is still standing because...uh...her OWN AVATAR appeared in front of the city to give the Alhoon army a good spanking. And there is nothing that you could possibly say or do to deny the fact that Lolth's appearance brought enormous masses of converts to her faith, and even granted Lolth's clergy a seat in the conclave.

Lolth's avatar descends during the fight to save the city, destroying the artifact weapon the alhoon wrought to destroy sshamath with, causing thousands to convert to the goddess despite the conclave's control on religion.

Keep in mind that Sshamath has something like 12000 free inhabitants, I wonder how many of them converted to Lolth now.

[Rainbow Prism]

The coming of avatar was boon for increased player activity. If it dies out the moment staff hand is removed from equation, it is hardly worth of supporting again.

Numbers of population vary depending on timeline and edition.

Not all of converted become priests.

Even less become monks.

And you miss the point. I never said they do not exist. I said they are in so small numbers that they will never provoke having special shop for them in Sshamath.

And Sune is quite different chaotic goddess. The only one to have paladins.


Seriously, players, you are holding at straws. How desperate are you to have copy of surface monk shop? Copy of everything surfacers have?

[Servin]

City of traders. No stuff for monks. Go figure. Whatever.

[18Rabbit]

How about a little curio shop that sells weird things like a few monk items and other knickknacks but not a dedicated monk emporium?

[Rainbow Prism]

Now that sounds reasonable.

But the main direction of the rest of goods should be taken in account.

Instead of having copy of something up there, I propose it should be unique items. Not spider motive, but rather, if it will go in, with drowcraft items, perhaps.

I am against Karond inventing the items, though. I still cannot throw out of my head the traditional drow cloak not available by alignment for traditional drow.

[Passiflora]

How about a little curio shop that sells weird things like a few monk items and other knickknacks but not a dedicated monk emporium?

Thought the auctionner was something like that.