Make Warlock application only

[omnilicious]

You've got spellcraft and lore, good for you. All that means is that you know that it's NOT arcane or divine magic they're using. At best you might know that they're a warlock and they're using invocations .... but you WILL NOT HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT TYPE OF WARLOCK they are or where their powers come from.
At the moment I think people wanting to pvp warlocks are as big a problem as careless warlocks themselves. I just rolled a warlock, invested heavily in bluff, made up a real back story and made up a fake back story to tell all the do-gooders.

This is how it went:

::roll bluff, succeed vs sense motive check by a mile, and still have pvp forced on me by high level toons in cloakwood::

This was generally best case scenario, most people would ignore my bluff rolls all together. My next move - delete warlock, they're a pain in the arse, and most sessions played on mine left me frustrated and angry at some players.
If you're in cloakwood and you're low level I don't care if you've got spellcraft and lore - your 5th level fighter wouldn't know a warlock if he kicked him up the rear.
If you're a warlock - be smart, invest in bluff or intimidate. Be discreet.

Rant over. I'd vote make warlock app only, they're too misunderstood and should only be handled be capable RP'ers.

4 more days and I've met another 4 NEW "good" warlocks.

I have to this day have not met 1 warlock that didn't:
A: Summon demons in my face
B: Say, "Yes, I'm warlock, I use my pact for good"

My only real problem with this, is that I have to leave groups to uphold vows because people can't stand the idea that summoning demons/undead, saying, "I'm a warlock" or turning into demons (don't know if it's just a mage that does this?) isn't good in public... especially not around someone they already know is a good divine caster.

[WeWhoEat]

Well, my character has always hated (other) warlocks. She thinks that (other) warlocks are evil bastards or hopeless amateurs messing with powers they cannot control. In fact, I am considering having her taking a more active role against (other) warlocks - maybe even starting a small anti-(other)warlock mini-faction, something secretive.

So, perhaps some day, the Inquisition will be there, to take care of all these (other) warlocks!

And Omni, the fact that you are willing to leave groups for the sake of RP speaks very well of your dedication to RP. Kudos to you, be proud of that fact. And I do agree, the "good" warlocks can be irritating as Hells.

[omnilicious]

Well, my character has always hated (other) warlocks. She thinks that (other) warlocks are evil bastards or hopeless amateurs messing with powers they cannot control. In fact, I am considering having her taking a more active role against (other) warlocks - maybe even starting a small anti-(other)warlock mini-faction, something secretive.

So, perhaps some day, the Inquisition will be there, to take care of all these (other) warlocks!

And Omni, the fact that you are willing to leave groups for the sake of RP speaks very well of your dedication to RP. Kudos to you, be proud of that fact. And I do agree, the "good" warlocks can be irritating as Hells.

I love that idea lol, a secret organization, with evil-ish background for a good-ish reason... fits a warlock's mindset so well

Kinda like Ammon Jerro.

[WeWhoEat]

I think part of the problem (a very very small part, though) is that demons and devils are not treated with the respect one might think they should. Hated, yes, feared certainly, but still there is a degree of respect for the fact that they are dangerous embodiments of pure evil. They are tempting, corrupting, tainting, bastards who have wiped out entire civilizations with their influence, who have waged an endless war since the dawn of time, who pose a danger not only to your body, but your mind and soul as well.

I have always loved how Warhammer and 40K depicted daemons and creatures of the warp. People in that setting, presented with a daemon, would not be like "oh hai guys this kind of demon is weak, free XP". No, nothing like that. Ninety-nine percent of the population would be like "oh fudge, we all gonna die". They would then die if they were lucky, or be driven mad, or tortured in serious mind-fudge sorts of ways, and their souls would be eaten. That last one percent, those who did not crap themselves and die screaming on the spot, would be the true cast-iron badasses, the Inquisitors and the Space Marines and the Ecclesiarch Witchhunters. They would fight demons, and still not treat them as pushovers. Some of the greatest of those bunches fell not to weapons, but to corruption.

I would love to see more events depicting demons and devils at that level of evil and danger, something that we cannot necessarily beat. I love Setanta's Harvester devil in his events, because it has built up a reputation, and is not just a creature thrown at the party for an anti-climactic boss-fight. I hate it when a DM is like "Hmm, this party is high level, so they should be able to handle a half-dozen balors just fine", or spawn demons/devils by the dozen for just busy-work event fodder.

Perhaps, if devils and demons were ever made serious business, that would reflect on those who make deals with them. I mean, if a single devil or demon is enough to cause mass panic, you damn well better get the torches and pitchforks ready for those who barter with them like a cook with a fishmonger.

[Azmodeth]

*barbecues a random cat for alignment shift*

sorrythis is where I stopped reading and started cracking up laughing...


warlocks are practically KOS anyways. People who play palladins have a tendancy to OVER act being dumb but overly complicated and morally focused. Halflings with a sling are just tools, and adding to thier own stereotypes.

why not just add some BOLD RED FONT and some extra eye candy, to the warlock class, explaining the difficulty in playing it on this server. stick an update in the rules (apparanrtly happens every few years or soemthing) and mention players MUST read the characters class information before sleecting, and that selecting means you are agreeing to play within the class's guidlines. this can adress multiple classes. You can also do this for races.

over time, poeple will take notice. especially if when you first come to BGTSCC and see that each races being selected has bold font red and something youve never seen before writtin, you will probably read it.

[AC81]

@omni- i totally agree with you on the devil shapeshift/summon point. That is immediate grounds for pvp or killing the summons. Alll i'd say is be careful about accusing them of beingg warlocks, as other classes can do these things.

@azmodeth- why are sling using halflings tools?

[Azmodeth]

@azmodeth- why are sling using halflings tools?

they contribute to thier arch-stereotypes. If I was a small man in stature, living amongst all these tall great advenbturers, i might have some kind of complex, and maybe not want to use slings... maybe something more flashy, to be known and rememebred and equally respected...

whats a sling to a halfling anyways, his sock with the few pebbles inside ? would explain why he has it in his hand calling it "lucky" rather then wearing it, maybe it was a gift and he does not want to be rude by throwing such a thing out, while trying to be on his best behaviour trying to fit in 9while he is seen, that is).. plus, its dirty now, and he must keep his feet clean. do not want to get them dirty by wearing a sock now ! socks get wet you know! and wet socks suck, totally ! mow sandles are just great, you can even swat spiders with them !

[AC81]

Well, id be willing to bet there are mwny more warlocks on the server than sling wielding hin.

[VinnytheSquid]

Decided not to beat the dead horse anymore because the meat is too tender already.

May I suggest two things:

A:) Applications for new warlocks.

B:) A new skill to identify them as we already have SM for bluffs and no longer have to roll spots.

*edited because I can*

I don't think we should have a skill in addition to spellcraft. I still argue that adding sense motive was a mistake. If you add a new skill will those that have spellcraft be offered rebuilds if they want to identify warlocks? If not, will there be a two-tiered system like sense motive? Also, didn't the DMs already rule on this subject?

As for making warlocks application only, I have never played one so I don't want to comment on the specific ideology. In regard to the overall philosophy, I can point to good and bad examples of RP for every class. That's of course my opinion, but that's also my concern when you make application only decisions. How do you qualify the requirements for approval so everyone is comfortable with them and it's not one person's opinion. Personally, I think classes should only be made application only if they're being abused in a way that grossly upsets game mechanics or grossly disrupts immersion of other players (not just the usual disparity between game styles and characters).

[Catam]

Personally, I think classes should only be made application only if they're being abused in a way that grossly upsets game mechanics or grossly disrupts immersion of other players (not just the usual disparity between game styles and characters).

An elf warlock who claimed to have received his powers from Corellon was outside of Doron Amar last night. This was not a character who was mislead but simply a player who did not understand his class. The fundamental reason why those who would like to see an application for warlock is due to players who do not truly understand where the powers a warlock use are truly derived.

The simple question is would it be easier for the staff to use an application process for the class or police the many misconceptions that the players have about warlocks. The first step should be the staff reviewing warlock lore, discussing what is and what is not acceptable and then publishing these as canon for our server. The place to publish would be the forums and in the class description viewable at creation and level up.

No matter what, there will always be players ignorant of what is allowable on the server. With all the places to view information on clerics (including the description viewable at creation and level up) that the staff have placed to minimize the constant issues with domains and spell choices, there are still those who simply do not read them.

We all understand that BGTSCC is an RP server that also caters to those who are not overly interested in RP. But once these players begin to interact in story lines and plots, they have a responsibility to have the backgrounds, deities and the other relevant RP criteria of their characters within the accepted lore of our server.

Until the staff publishes what is acceptable for warlocks, we're just going to have to continue to debate this. Even still, there has been so much information shared from this discussion that many warlocks are now using. That is always a good thing.

Regarding the warlock of Corellon... after the rather intense RP there was a polite OOC discussion and he decided to RCR into an elf of different classes.

[Chexss]

Personally, I think classes should only be made application only if they're being abused in a way that grossly upsets game mechanics or grossly disrupts immersion of other players (not just the usual disparity between game styles and characters).

An elf warlock who claimed to have received his powers from Corellon was outside of Doron Amar last night. This was not a character who was mislead but simply a player who did not understand his class. The fundamental reason why those who would like to see an application for warlock is due to players who do not truly understand where the powers a warlock use are truly derived.

The simple question is would it be easier for the staff to use an application process for the class or police the many misconceptions that the players have about warlocks. The first step should be the staff reviewing warlock lore, discussing what is and what is not acceptable and then publishing these as canon for our server. The place to publish would be the forums and in the class description viewable at creation and level up.

No matter what, there will always be players ignorant of what is allowable on the server. With all the places to view information on clerics (including the description viewable at creation and level up) that the staff have placed to minimize the constant issues with domains and spell choices, there are still those who simply do not read them.

We all understand that BGTSCC is an RP server that also caters to those who are not overly interested in RP. But once these players begin to interact in story lines and plots, they have a responsibility to have the backgrounds, deities and the other relevant RP criteria of their characters within the accepted lore of our server.

Until the staff publishes what is acceptable for warlocks, we're just going to have to continue to debate this. Even still, there has been so much information shared from this discussion that many warlocks are now using. That is always a good thing.

Regarding the warlock of Corellon... after the rather intense RP there was a polite OOC discussion and he decided to RCR into an elf of different classes.

I tried to make a warlock a couple of times...both times I rcr'd. I could never get the background and bio right to make the RP feel right like my wizard or my druid...who needs a lot of work on that bio still...*grumbles* besides the point! Warlock isn't the class for me probably =P I have a drow warlock right now but...the RP definitely doesn't seem to be there for me. I find it more of me trying to RP sometimes ///ooc while spamming 2 for eldritch spear. I may give it a shot again but I can see what people are talking about.

[dzidek1983]

with warlocks people are to much focused on the pact RP, while your character can f.ex. not know shit about where his powers come from...

you can act as a superhero, as demon blood flows in your veins for hundreds of years and you have no idea its there, you only have thises powers

especially easy on a drow in an evil society where no one impales you for having strange powers

[Elthan]

This thread reminds me of a certain warlock running around BG openly claiming to be an archfiend and wasn't stopped for lack of dm attention in certain hours >.<

[Hoihe]

This thread reminds me of a certain warlock running around BG openly claiming to be an archfiend and wasn't stopped for lack of dm attention in certain hours >.<

A shame he isn't around anymore. It was just too amusing to be snarky around him.

[Darksider_war]

*Edited by Passi*