Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

GIB Evasion

MEchanically speaking more domains is always better since it gives more build variety, especially if some useful spells are included with every domain

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:18 pm GIB Evasion

MEchanically speaking more domains is always better since it gives more build variety, especially if some useful spells are included with every domain

Part of the reason I'm arguing in favor of giving strong options to different domains. Clerics do not get every domain, they have to choose. So if you've got multiple strong options, then there will be competition between them, there will be multiple build possibilities, reducing the Water domain meta.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:34 pmPart of the reason I'm arguing in favor of giving strong options to different domains. Clerics do not get every domain, they have to choose. So if you've got multiple strong options, then there will be competition between them, there will be multiple build possibilities, reducing the Water domain meta.

Exactly. Some domains ( very few ) have some nice DC spells - eg Hatred domain gets Wail - which are necessary for a DC caster. It would be nice if Most domains, if no all, have some good DC spell they can actually use. If again the majority of spells the domains get are blasting spells, then it wont have much affect. Spells like Flesh to Stone, Laitaes spell, MAss blindness etc are examples of some useful spells. Even if a spell a cleric already has but is given at a higher level if possible( higher DC ) will help

Rhifox wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:08 pmDrown spells did not feel appropriate for Ocean (which Valkur has), nor Water (which we can largely support the pnp version of with the spells we have), while Watery Death does allow for all the 'evil' water spells that Umberlee would grant her followers.

Deep Sashelas also has ocean. Even so, Drown isn't an evil spell.

For example if most schools can be represented as the Necro school, then it will make other types of DC clerics more viable. Right now, for me at least, the necromancy school with the Hatred domain is the most viable school with a big difference from the second

an example of a necro spellbook with at least one necro DC spell on every level (on lvl 3 there is also wrack )

Deathgrowl wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:44 pm

Rhifox wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:08 pmDrown spells did not feel appropriate for Ocean (which Valkur has), nor Water (which we can largely support the pnp version of with the spells we have), while Watery Death does allow for all the 'evil' water spells that Umberlee would grant her followers.

Deep Sashelas also has ocean. Even so, Drown isn't an evil spell.

It isn't, but it also wouldn't make sense to replace pnp Ocean spells with Drown and Mass Drown. So I decided to just implement Watery Death.

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:51 pm For example if most schools can be represented as the Necro school, then it will make other types of DC clerics more viable. Right now, for me at least, the necromancy school with the Hatred domain is the most viable school with a big difference from the second

an example of a necro spellbook with at least one necro DC spell on every level (on lvl 3 there is also wrack )

There will be several domains now with a good chunk of Necromancy spells. Other ones with other schools.

What I'm hoping is caster clerics will feel more empowered with the new domain options. There are some buffs, but most of those are just 'cast X cleric spell one level lower'. Offensive spells comprise most of the new additions.

Also you should consider opening up Laitaes spell for all clerics. The only DC spell on that level for clerics is Bodak's Glare which is a very iffy spell for good aligned characters. LAitae's will provide a good alternative for a different type of school

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:04 pm Also you should consider opening up Laitaes spell for all clerics. The only DC spell on that level for clerics is Bodak's Glare which is a very iffy spell for good aligned characters. LAitae's will provide a good alternative for a different type of school

The deal for me when I made the spell was to not have it in any domains but have it accessible to clerics who did pick Good Domain and clerics of Mystra.

Deathgrowl wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:16 pm

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:04 pm Also you should consider opening up Laitaes spell for all clerics. The only DC spell on that level for clerics is Bodak's Glare which is a very iffy spell for good aligned characters. LAitae's will provide a good alternative for a different type of school

The deal for me when I made the spell was to not have it in any domains but have it accessible to clerics who did pick Good Domain and clerics of Mystra.

MEchanically speaking it would be fine to limit it if it was an average spell. Laitae's spell is one of the most powerful spells. A lvl8 save or die on will saves - I dont think something similar will be created. If something similar is indeed developed then by all means, limit it to a couple domains.

Even my arcane casters, they all pick this spell no matter of their alignment

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:04 pm Also you should consider opening up Laitaes spell for all clerics. The only DC spell on that level for clerics is Bodak's Glare which is a very iffy spell for good aligned characters. LAitae's will provide a good alternative for a different type of school

Laitae's won't be opened up for IC reasons (I originally planned to, but DG let me know there's IC things keeping it restricted).

Some domains do have DC level 8 spells, though. Cavern gets Stonehold, Blight gets Energy Drain, there's a few Dominate Monsters, one or two Finger of Deaths, etc.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:38 pm

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:04 pm Also you should consider opening up Laitaes spell for all clerics. The only DC spell on that level for clerics is Bodak's Glare which is a very iffy spell for good aligned characters. LAitae's will provide a good alternative for a different type of school

Laitae's won't be opened up for IC reasons (I originally planned to, but DG let me know there's IC things keeping it restricted).

Some domains do have DC level 8 spells, though. Cavern gets Stonehold, Blight gets Energy Drain, there's a few Dominate Monsters, one or two Finger of Deaths, etc.

Wow, i dont know about the IC things. In that case you should consider developing a similar spell for clerics. All the spells you mentioned, even if they can be somewhat useful for a DC caster - personally I wouldnt pick any of them other than the FoD which is of the same school with Bodak's Glare - there is nothing similar on that level. Anyway, you seem to know what to do and I am looking forward for this rework

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:04 pm Also you should consider opening up Laitaes spell for all clerics. The only DC spell on that level for clerics is Bodak's Glare which is a very iffy spell for good aligned characters. LAitae's will provide a good alternative for a different type of school

For my own two cents, there is a considerable difference between SoL spells based on the save allowed (Fort/Ref/Will), the spellschool of the spell in particular (which is why for DC druids Conjuration reigns supreme for Drown/Mass Drown/Swamp Lung/Bombardment/SoV/etc. when you decide to stack up regular/greater/epic Spell Focus for a +%20 success rate in overcoming the save), and the spell slot it is available at (since unlike with PnP, you can't push up a DC with Heighten Spell metamagic in NWN2 to get a certain effect with at a higher available spell slot).

Bodak's Glare - Necromancy (meaning Shadow Shield has the potential to grant immunity against it), Death descriptor (meaning Death Ward would grant immunity against it), Fortitude save spell, with Necromancy Spell Focus (which may coincide with an Epic Spell Focus Necromancy cleric with Hierophant for Blast Infidel uses of Harm).

Laitae's Second Chance - Abjuration, Mind-Affecting descriptor (so Mind Blank and Protection from Alignment can potentially serve as a barrier), effectiveness based on the alignment of the target, Will save spell.

I guess the summary of my argument is Save-or-Lose for a spell slot, for those to be comparable, cannot be seen in a vacuum.

Any fiend worshipers around?



Thanks to KOPOJIbPAKOB for the amazing icon work!

Edit: Probably going to merge Belial and Fierna into one entry (because apparently Fierna doesn't have any worshipers separately, even though some sources list her as having her own favored weapon), and add Zariel instead (since she's apparently still lord of the first atm).

Rhifox wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:17 am Any fiend worshipers around?



Thanks to KOPOJIbPAKOB for the amazing icon work!

Holy moly. Im googling now excited to see what domain/abilities/spells are coming!