Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Leaf_Smoker wrote:

Xanfyrst wrote:What if people play vagrants? You want to take away their RP?

Please don't troll just for the hell of it. Let's keep this discussion constructive.

I did write more than that, you know...

While I might often come off as a contrarian and a grumpy old man on the forum, I am actually neither as many who has spoken with me on msn/IG would tell you. I'm just one of those players who play to have fun. Inconveniences like these are, in my opinion, not fun. Well, maybe for those 'hardcore' players who loves that stuff. But I'm not one of those. And since I'm also one of those players with limited playtime, I'd prefer having fun in those precious minutes/hours.

And I wasn't trolling. I was actually both sarcastic and serious at the same time. Believe it or not.

How does it interact with the rest of the party? It would appear a bit silly to me if monsters suddenly spawned because only one person in our party rested.

I'd remove the individual rest timer in parties and have them rest at the same time to prevent that, (via rest consent UI popup, start real resting if they all consent) or only make it work only like that if you are solo. It'd be like *poof* monsters appear out of nowhere while there are several people not resting, near the resting PC.

That also greatly reduces the annoyance it causes when the monsters are spawned since the party will only produce one rest instance (only 1 time monsters would be spawned)
Otherwise you end up with a system where each PC produces a seperate resting instance which can spawn monsters, causing a party to be ganged up by multiple mob groups. In BG2 its a joint party rest, to solve this problem. That'd be very good to have I think and gives a reason to discuss resting places as a party.

As a compromise I'd say make the current campfires places where you can rest 100% or something like 99% safe from encounters at minimum. When the party rests you could even spawn a few camping placeables and destroy them afterwards. (with a floating message on the rest instigator of the party / individual doing so, for immersion's sake)

For a medium RP server compromise is necessary, we're not hardcore and we won't become hardcore - it's simply not fun for a large part of the population we have. (who do roleplay but don't like hardcore for mentioned reasons) I like the idea of Inns that cancel / reset the resting the timer and allow you to rest. That's worth paying for. If this system is implemented.


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So what I was saying is like this:
-Someone rests

if in a party:
-check party resting timer instead of individual one (if party timers somehow vary, use the highest timer found)
-Rest is canceled, UI button pops up on all party mates: "X wants to rest, do you consent?"
-Reduce chance of encounter to 0 or 1% if near a rest site / campfire or safe if in a non hostile area
-All consent: Party rests, encounter checker & spawner script gets ran once (and spawn camping placeables)
-Rest timer for party is set based on faction highest level"
-Set last party rest time as individiual rest time as well. (set individual cooldown)

or: not everyone consents to rest, rest is canceled and notification message sent to the party. Timer is not affected.


If solo
-Check individual rest timer
-Reduce chance of encounter to 0 or 1% if near a rest site / campfire or safe if in a non hostile area
-Rest, encounter checker & spawner script gets ran once (and spawn camping placeables)
-Individual rest timer is reset

monster script:
-spawn monsters based on area / nearby monsters / encounters if possible
-spawn them in a position approaching the party, not ontop of unless listen checks are failed and the party is ambushed (put up a red floating message if they are ambushed, show the rolls in combat log like is normal)

Then we might also consider adding something to prevent monsters being spawned if there is a PC keeping watch and not resting. Or to atleast prevent an ambush from happening if there is a PC keeping watch. (who is not in the party, because the entire party needs to consent to rest)
It'd cause the *poof* monsters appear problem again if that isn't taken into account.

Or we could work in a button that allows a person to take watch instead of rest, without canceling the party rest because he didn't consent. The party resting timer gets set so he'd have to wait a while then. Or make party resting require the consent of at least 2 people but not the entire party necessarily. Those who don't rest are then treated as keeping watch by the encounter script.

I totally agree about not becoming too hardcore here.

I've played on NWN1 hardcore servers before and I think BGtSCC is much more fun!

Maybe my idea about fatigue and resting not healing hp is a bit too much for most players. I would really like to see having a decent healer in the party encouraged, but apparently many player wouldn't like it.

Making it possible to rest (nearly) everywhere with the chance of having a PvE encounter if resting in dangerous areas is not a step into the direction of becoming more hardcore, though. It means in fact more realism AND more convinience! If you don't want to risk these encounters you can still rest in safe areas (which will be more or less the areas you can rest at the moment as well with a few exceptions, I guess). And players who want to risk it will have the possibility.

In fact, I am sure that Leaf's rest system should be tested and implemented. It sounds great!

But... I kinda like resting as a... freebie restore max health potion! With that system I'd have more expenses! What if I'm near to dying and rest, and a monster finishes me... I'd have to heal before resting

Nope, you only had to go to a safe area. There would be no big difference to the current system.

Yesterday we went trough the Gibberling caves, like you certainly remember. There is only one spot there where you can rest there. This spot might still be a safe area in the new system but you would ALSO be able to rest some place else, but THERE would be the chance of an encounter.

But I'm too stoopid to see a safe safe area from a rest safe area with monsters?

The game would have to tell me...

You will quickly find out.

And maybe the game would tell you.

Save areas would probably be all areas without monster spawns. Inns, for example.

The game does tell you.

"This seems like a safe area to rest." (Combat log)

Rasael wrote:How does it interact with the rest of the party? It would appear a bit silly to me if monsters suddenly spawned because only one person in our party rested.

I'd remove the individual rest timer in parties and have them rest at the same time to prevent that, (via rest consent UI popup, start real resting if they all consent) or only make it work only like that if you are solo. It'd be like *poof* monsters appear out of nowhere while there are several people not resting, near the resting PC.

That also greatly reduces the annoyance it causes when the monsters are spawned since the party will only produce one rest instance (only 1 time monsters would be spawned)
Otherwise you end up with a system where each PC produces a seperate resting instance which can spawn monsters, causing a party to be ganged up by multiple mob groups. In BG2 its a joint party rest, to solve this problem. That'd be very good to have I think and gives a reason to discuss resting places as a party.

As a compromise I'd say make the current campfires places where you can rest 100% or something like 99% safe from encounters at minimum. When the party rests you could even spawn a few camping placeables and destroy them afterwards. (with a floating message on the rest instigator of the party / individual doing so, for immersion's sake)

For a medium RP server compromise is necessary, we're not hardcore and we won't become hardcore - it's simply not fun for a large part of the population we have. (who do roleplay but don't like hardcore for mentioned reasons) I like the idea of Inns that cancel / reset the resting the timer and allow you to rest. That's worth paying for. If this system is implemented.


-------------------
So what I was saying is like this:
-Someone rests

if in a party:
-check party resting timer instead of individual one (if party timers somehow vary, use the highest timer found)
-Rest is canceled, UI button pops up on all party mates: "X wants to rest, do you consent?"
-Reduce chance of encounter to 0 or 1% if near a rest site / campfire or safe if in a non hostile area
-All consent: Party rests, encounter checker & spawner script gets ran once (and spawn camping placeables)
-Rest timer for party is set based on faction highest level"
-Set last party rest time as individiual rest time as well. (set individual cooldown)

or: not everyone consents to rest, rest is canceled and notification message sent to the party. Timer is not affected.


If solo
-Check individual rest timer
-Reduce chance of encounter to 0 or 1% if near a rest site / campfire or safe if in a non hostile area
-Rest, encounter checker & spawner script gets ran once (and spawn camping placeables)
-Individual rest timer is reset

monster script:
-spawn monsters based on area / nearby monsters / encounters if possible
-spawn them in a position approaching the party, not ontop of unless listen checks are failed and the party is ambushed (put up a red floating message if they are ambushed, show the rolls in combat log like is normal)

Then we might also consider adding something to prevent monsters being spawned if there is a PC keeping watch and not resting. Or to atleast prevent an ambush from happening if there is a PC keeping watch. (who is not in the party, because the entire party needs to consent to rest)
It'd cause the *poof* monsters appear problem again if that isn't taken into account.

Or we could work in a button that allows a person to take watch instead of rest, without canceling the party rest because he didn't consent. The party resting timer gets set so he'd have to wait a while then. Or make party resting require the consent of at least 2 people but not the entire party necessarily. Those who don't rest are then treated as keeping watch by the encounter script.

I can look into the party resting if you like. But I don't think leaving someone on watch should negate the chance of an encounter, or resting in shifts will just bypass the whole system. Even if a player watches over the others in his/her group, they are still staying in one place for a truncated 8 hour period (in theory) and monsters might still smell them, hear them, run across them in that time with or without a watchman.

I do not spawn creatures right on top of the group/player either. That would just be lame. They spawn 30' - 40' away and approach from there. There are actually three ways in which to spawn creatures in the system.

1.) Dynamically at a certain distance out (as mentioned above) which is the easiest way and requires no modifications to most of our areas.

2.) By specifically tagged spawn points.

3.) By specifically tagged doors. Which is pretty cool if used in dungeons. The creatures spawn on the other side of the door, open it, then come at the group.


Now, I don't see this as a hardcore system. In fact, I think I padded it quite well so that it isn't. Just look at the fact that I give you several attempts to make your roll and rest instead of giving you one shot pass/fail. I don't even make maxing the fails that bad, as you can still rest in a safe area after that. It's pretty soft if you ask me, but I never intended it to be hardcore.

Can I ask to be considered that to make a campfire, in order to rest wherever, a toon needs a stack of wood, log or kindling...whatever to give this possible new function a dimension of reality.

Not hardcore RP, but just like we have ales to drink, heal kits to heal, rune stones to teleport...now, logs to burn.

Eh?

stevebarracuda wrote:Can I ask to be considered that to make a campfire, in order to rest wherever, a toon needs a stack of wood, log or kindling...whatever to give this possible new function a dimension of reality.

Not hardcore RP, but just like we have ales to drink, heal kits to heal, rune stones to teleport...now, logs to burn.

Eh?

We talked about that previously I know.. and the inclusion of any sort of supplies to rest was complained about being too 'hardcore' at the time. I am sure the same group would feel the same way now. Perhaps if the 'kindling' offered a small offset to the interruption chance, so that it was nice but not necessary, it would go over better. I dunno.

I don't see the proposed system as hardcore at all though, as Leaf said its actually dumbed down quite a bit from being hardcore, yet not all the way down to action-server style, with free-rest anywhere. To me it is as medium as we call ourselves.

@Leaf
With ambush I ment that there's a chance the monsters spawn ontop of the resting group. If you leave a sentry or there are non party neutrals / allies nearby you can still encounter monsters but they won''t spawn on top of your group.

I think making it so that the party becomes involved in the resting and picking of rest sites like that would be a very good addition. The party based timer will also prevent some of the possible absues, because it'd also set the individual timer for everyone in the group.

stevebarracuda wrote:Can I ask to be considered that to make a campfire, in order to rest wherever, a toon needs a stack of wood, log or kindling...whatever to give this possible new function a dimension of reality.

Only of we have a bag of infinite wood holding. There's not enough slots now from some characters (like my shuriken chucker for example).

Stealth Cleric buff? I am all for it.