Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Valefort wrote:Sure, as a player, you understand that the fleeing troll probably doesn't want to PvP but that's plain metagaming and for all you know he could be trying to bait you into a trap of some kind.

been there done that

Catam wrote: Unfortunately for those that Catam toggles hostile, his ranger radar HUD goes active... he hates thieves, loathes giants, despises demons and devils... though that is only that specific character. If it were Bak on the other hand... he'd chase you until he either hit you or was distracted by a cookie......

edit: typos

Necromancers not on list..... good

They choose PVP every time they shapechange

I have a great story, about this when I transitioned into an interesting thing from the new Fist tower in the woods of sharp teeth.

Today I saw a giant golem carrying a female wizard near the newly built trade-way ruins near the new tower the fist have put up ((thanks new Map editor guy)) and he was being attacked by bandits. So I fought the bandits on Zorn with horrible punching accuracy, and he placed the female wizard down. He transformed back into his normal form, a wizard, and watched me slowly defeat the bandit. I then turned around asking

"Say, where did you come from?"

And he said something along the sorts of " I'm sorry, but I cannot let you live for what you have just seen. Any last requests? "

I had not seen him transform back IC and suspected this wizard was not the golem (when it obviously was). IC, however, Zorn did not realize any of this, and was completely confused why he would tell Zorn he wasO about to die for seeing so much.

I then asked him if he was a Bhaalite for threatening me without a real purpose.. I think he said he served Kossuth in his own design, and then I said "Well, guess it's time for me to book it. Best of luck to me! See you! " I then proceeded to run, but he hostiled me and Greater Ruined Zorn's rear end (Zorn currently only has 82 HP).

For some, this sort of PvP without auto-consent would drive a person mad, but for me, I found it perfectly legitment and was quite happy with it. Reasons:

a) The wizard supposeldy thought I saw him attack / murder this other female wizard ((assumign he did so, as I didnt see it OOC or IC at all ))

b) The last request was fair enough warning and game that PvP was about to happen.

c) I fully support PvP and do not complain about it if it happens. Level's do not matter when you play in a roleplay server. For example: I had an old Stormlord whom went around trolling people and starting fights. He was once four-shotted by a half-orcish paladins who only used his fists. Did this anger me? Did I cower out? Did I complain. No. No. No. Backing out of PvP because the person is level 30 and your level 1, is like metagaming in my eyes. How do you know this poor looking scrub-of a guy is level 30, when your level one nobleman looks much more richer than him? Die playerscry!


If people run around killing without a real reason, without a roleplay warning, without some sort of motive, then it is wrong. But any PvP where the person clearly speaks, mentions anything, or states something is perfeclty game. If you come up to me and yell "I'm a serial killer! You're about to die!" Then give me a chance to respond, then I have no grudge with you, as you have clearly given me a chance to react in a certain way.

But not everyone enjoys this, obviously. And people complain about the game mechanics, and all that and take it into /tell and whine.. blah blah, waste my night of roleplay.

Suck it up, move on. Anyone who takes up a weapon or deadly magic that can assault and kill someone has a high chance of PvP.

ERR... I completely ranted towards the end in the paragraphs above, forgetting the entire topic.

Transitions are indeed a game mechanic...but I think if someone is shapeshifted and transitions into another area, then I personally still think it should be fair game to PvP. Perhaps not Killable on sight, but with a good roleplay in the mix first. (( I don't support KoS whatsoever. A good epic dialogue is always needed, espicially if the character is a dark and evil necromancer. Mwajhahahahahahaha!!!!)) A person should be given a chance to response. A nightwalker changing back into a humanoid form should still be killable though (WITH DIALOGUE). Transforming into undead or evil creatures like devils, is just evil outright.

Or you could be evil characters, like I usually am, and disregard all the shapeshifters, when you yourself may be one :p

Just my thoughts on this heated topic.

Valefort wrote:Sure, as a player, you understand that the fleeing troll probably doesn't want to PvP but that's plain metagaming and for all you know he could be trying to bait you into a trap of some kind.

Yes, let us run face first into the obvious trap.

But as for metagaming, it is worth to consider that the troll you finally caught after the chase is just standing idle at the back of the dungeon. As for the actual player, he went to take a leak, or to chop a leek. And as for the next time you two meet, is going to take about a week.

Hey, some people actually RP the lack of wisdom/intelligence of their character you know. And to the others who simply want to PvP ? I guess they failed their own wis/int rolls

Standing AFK while being chased ? This doesn't make sense at all. At least put the AFK sign on and/or tell people you're sorry, or to wait because you're effectively messing up with their RP. That happens but seriously, taking a leak while you're being chased ?

Just saying that once the 'troll' faces a dead end cannot run anymore, what makes you think the player behind the said 'troll' is any bit inclined to fulfill the chaser's PvP-enthusiasm? You know, beyond being beaten to ground?

Shapeshifting into a troll can have consequences. As you most certainly know (first hand ?) Simian.

You can always shift back to human, the choice is always there. And then you can insult them bloody adventurers for pursuing you because you didn't want to have to revert back to your normal form, this is totally an IC reason and ground for some comical RP imo

We could discuss the technicalities of PVP all day long and there is always something more that should be done to make it more fair.

The truth is that we just need to be a little bit more understanding and roll with the punches sometimes. That's my opinion. You don't actually "lose" anything from doing a pvp so I dont see what the problem is.

I've had a few pvp's that I didn't necessarily want at the time, but I role played it anyways because it seemed like a better idea than starting an OOC feud. I have also found that when you send someone a polite tell during or after a pvp it can diffuse a situation almost no matter what. For instance, even if frustrated you could say "Hey, excellent job! I think you role played that really well."

And usually they'll be like ":D Thanks! you too!"

And then suddenly your frustration turns it into an enjoyable experience even if you got handed to yourself lol.

I know it can be frustrating especially in the instance of a transition, but still, it was a one time thing, and somebody was walking around as a horned demon...come on. I think we should be willing to accept the consequences of what would happen walking around as a horned demon and be grateful people role play their characters to react appropriately.

We could turn to the rules every time a frustrating experience occurs or we can try to make the best out of it, understanding the other player most likely has the best of intentions in mind and was only trying to be true to their character.

Valefort wrote:The transition is what is at stake there, not the auto consent I think ?
Just make sure every side finished loading up before engaging in a PvP.

As someone who loads slowly in transitions, and depends entirely on shapeshift forms to survive... I would like for people to actually wait until I've loaded and moved/said something to show this, before they pull the trigger.

This seems to be a case of accidental button strokes. If its the case of the number hotbar, I suggest change these to a non-number one as its not the first time I've heard this.

Holy cow did this thread explode while I was away! That said, it seems to have drifted majorly off point. I wasn't trying to make a comment on player attitudes towards PvP, as opinions will always differ from person-to-person. Nor was I saying that Catam (since he's already revealed himself) broke any rules in attacking. I'm not even arguing that looking like a Troll or Horned Devil isn't cause to attack someone.

All I'm saying is that there should be an addendum to one rule and a new rule should be added to address something that does come up occasionally (this isn't the first time I've run into people I'd rather avoid at transitions, nor the first time I've stumbled upon someone while transformed).

Proposed addendum to shifting PvP rule:
Give people a chance to turn back and explain their forms before engaging in hostilities.

Proposed new rule:
If two people who have cause for PvP meet accidentally at a transition, give the person who transitioned the option to walk away (representing them turning back once they realized who they would run into if they continued).

Yes, many consider these rules to be common sense. No, they are not expressly written into the rules, therefore some do not abide by these ideas.




@ Catam: I was trying to keep the particulars out, because this thread isn’t about the incident, but I won’t suffer attempts to villainize me when all of my actions were for the benefit of you and your party:

Mistakes happen. I would have been fine with an accidental shot. You shot, I had no idea what was going on, and hit the transition point when trying to back up. What annoys me is that you then activated hostile and transitioned after me without sending me a tell explaining what was going on. We both had pets, which meant that they would start fighting the moment you saw me. By that point, I had already turned back into a human, but because of our pets, I had to transition to keep my dog from killing your leopard. I was human when you transitioned, not devil (and I have the screenshot to prove it). Still hostile, you tried to transition after me again. At this point I was pretty damn sure you were out for blood and left the mountain.

Second, you’re right about V saying that he would follow so he wouldn’t have to kill anything. That was so I wouldn’t take your kills. You said no. So I said I would go ahead up the mountain alone. You all transitioned after me, so I let your party take the lead anyways. Even buffed one of your crew and helped heal another. We reached the top, but as I was an unwelcome guest, I figured I would give you all time to get far enough ahead so that we wouldn’t run into each other. So I spent five minutes or so resting/warding V and his dog (because the things up there will eat me alive if I run into one unprepared). I figured enough time passed, so I transitioned, apparently into a group of elves gathered around a campfire right next to the transition, plus an arrow in the face. And given that Catam knows that V is a druid and that druids transform, which seems more likely: A, there’s a tiny devil randomly roaming the mountainside that managed to sneak up on a party of elves/scouts; or B, the man who is able to shapeshift caught up?

This topic isn’t about a particular incident, so stick to the merits/flaws with the proposed rules only, please.

The two posts here by Darkshard and Maecus pretty much already ruled that attacking people at a Transition is a huge no-no, even if it's not specifically detailed the guidelines as of yet or elaborated into covering all possible PvP situations at a Transition.

Technically, following someone through a Transition is also breaking the 24hour avoidance rule. Once the player has left the zone, PvP has ended - chasing them into another zone is resuming PvP after it has already ended, although that's not a popular view of things.

If a fight is meant to happen, respectfully, then both combatants are going to stay in the zone and duke it out. If you chase them, you're using load times and more to extend your pursuance of violence against a Player who has already bowed out of a fight, which is OOCly pretty disrespectful and leans into breaking rules #10 and #16.

That all being stated, zoning back out should be enough. Unshifting should be enough. Both are solid approaches to taking an Out and RPing non-hostility, as running the hell in the other direction is pretty strong on RPing that you're not a threat.

I tend to view transitions of being at least 1 mile betwen two areas (sometimes it become a 20 mile or so). When chasing someone it could be kept in mind.

Why should shapechanging back to 'normal' form be an end to the hostilities.

For instance, how do I know I'm not dealing with a Troll Wizard, who has now assumed human form to trick me?

I'm going to keep on killing.

Krazy wrote:Why should shapechanging back to 'normal' form be an end to the hostilities

Because that is the rule we agree to when we play here.

Iso wrote:

Krazy wrote:Why should shapechanging back to 'normal' form be an end to the hostilities

Because that is the rule we agree to when we play here.

Yes I second this, it is in the PvP rules. If they unshift then reinitiate then that's another. Someone caught me off guard with that one day, B9 to the face lol.