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[Simian]

In NWN2 and in PnP a level 30 Paladin indeed has the caster level of 15.

However, in BGTSCC a level 30 Paladin will have the caster level of 30.

Therefore, the spell you mentioned duration, Silver Beard, is three rounds per caster level. Therefore, it lasts for a total of 90 rounds. 90 * 6 = 540 seconds. In other words, full nine minutes.

[c2k]

Silverbeard
Caster Level(s): Paladin 1
Innate Level: 1
School: Transmutation
Descriptor(s):
Component(s): Verbal
Range: Personal
Area of Effect / Target: You
Duration: 3 rounds/level
Save: None
Spell Resistance: No
Your beard grows and turns to pure and magically hardened silver, providing you with a +2 sacred bonus to AC. If you do not have a beard, you grow one for the duration of this spell (even if you are a creature that cannot normally grow a beard, such as an elf or a female human). You also gain a +2 Diplomacy bonus.

72 seconds at level 30, good for one battle and a half at best.

More like 540 seconds at level 30, assuming you took all Pa;adin levels.

[Atlas]

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[Larzs]

With the full CL and all the new spells paladins have received, I think they are just fine as they are.

Pretty much this. If I recall with Kaedrin's Spells(correct me if need be) Paladins are the only class that has multiple source Buff Spells. They have a few "Divine" source spells so it stacks WITH items and the standard "Enhancement" spells. May not last a whole day, but all Paladin stuff is battle casting anyways. I see no reason for Paladins to get any extra stuff unless it shifts them more in following PnP rules(namely multi-classing enforcement)

Aasimars are favored Class Paladin, it has been mentioned before. +2 to Cha and Wisdom isn't all that much, but it does make it easier and gives you a bit more freedom for build. While, taking that -2 to Cha hurts...quite a bit for a race with Barbarian as their go to profession. Charisma - Saves, Lay On Hands, Smite Evil Hit Bonus, Turn Undead Power, Turn Undead Uses.
And the depending on feats. AC and Damage again(added duration also for these). +1 Heal
Strength - Hit and Damage

So yeah, Cha is FAR more important to a Paladin then Strength. I'll say Half-Orc paladin is interesting RP stance...but really, all the short comings are all your choice. I kinda did the same thing with my assassin. Went all Int...I can't really sneak for shit around PCs...but sets my PC apart from most...so I live with it.

[Atlas]

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[Simian]

Well the thing is, I did roll out a Paladin character that didn't rely on Charisma one bit, and even still I ended up rolling as an Aasimar.

If there is something I would want to add to Paladins, it is the variant listed in Unearthed Arcana on page 58.

Paladin
The paladin who takes an active role in hunting her foul enemies must give up her defensive powers.
Gain: Favored enemy (as ranger; may only select aberrations, dragons, giants, monstrous humanoids, evil outsiders, or undead).
Lose: Lay on hands, turn undead, remove disease.

It is a legid PnP variant. While it allows you to make a viable out of less popular races, it doesn't actually produce anything that is stronger than a standard Paladin on an Aasimar.

And yes, much like barbarians, I would want that level one Paladins have to choose between "Hunter" and "Protector." The hunter providing the favoured enemies, and the protector path standard Paladin perks such as Lay on Hands, Turn Undead, and Remove Disease.

[Larzs]

Again you offer no reason as to why Aasimar should be the only viable race for the class. Sure they should be the favoured race since they are 1/12 Celestials, but should they be the only VIABLE race? No, not at all. And when I talk about Aasimar, I say Humans and Half Elves are decent also, but the gap between Aasimar and Humans/Half Elves is massive, and then every other mundane race after Human/Half Elf is massive again.

No one is disputing that charisma is very important to the Paladin, since it powers several of their feats, you infact have to balance charisma and strength typically. My own character has a base of 20 strength and 20 charisma for instance. And 8 dexterity, 13 constitution, 10 intelligence, 11 wisdom.

You are being kinda distorted in the fact that Paladin is a very rare thing, it isn't like someone says "I am gonna be a Paladin" and just does it, there is no training or academy for paladins...Paladins are picked by the gods and then the way NwN does it with the freedom to just pick another class and come right back without as even a second guess. Orcs are kinda rare thing to start with and don't have the self control required of a paladinhood.

Arkaine is like Mazzy Fentan from BGII, halfling that wants to be a paladin but never can be, but 3rd ED allows it so you gotta work with how they set it up. What is stopped you from making a human paladin with exactly the same personality, motivations and goals as Arkaine, you wanted to be a little different RP. Aasimars are favored to Paladin, Humans are favored to everything and orc are barbarian. That is just what they are more made for.

I don't see gnome and halfling barbarians out there wanting more stuff so they can hit the same as orcs or wrestle like them. That is what makes a race a given race with their strengths and weaknesses that add their certain favor and adaptations to the classes they play.

[Simian]

They did want the Epic Rage Strength requirements lowered, which they eventually got.

The racial '+2' modifiers are not that great of a thing in Pen and Paper. What is that exactly, at most +1 AC, AB, DC or at most +2 to damage. Usually the Dungeon Master pits the party against things they can defeat, hence, there is not a difference between an Aasimar and Half-Orc Paladin. And let us not forget how you rarely, if ever, reach Epics without especially generous experience rewards...

But in NWN2 we fight agains things that are already in place and more or less set in stone. We reach epic levels, and Epic feat requirements are generally so high that you need those +2 racial modifiers to achieve them. That is why Aasimar is the superior race when it comes to anything trying to get Epic Divine Might.

[Atlas]

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[Managarn]

if we are to balance all thing and everything, then we got a lot of work around. Buffing and nerfing everything is bothersome(and futile, proved by WoW still always trying to balance their class) and instead people should just realize that not all classes, races and combo of class/race is or should be equal. Maybe nwn2 is closer to a mmo but that doesnt mean it needs to become even closer to one.

So quite frankly this thread has been nothing but a cry for a buff for a class that already got a lot of stuff given to them. Mostly the full CL which is a HUGE boost to the class.

If you ask for a boost that pertain to pnp, because this is what nwn2 is trying to emulate. Than im all for it. If all you want is balance because you dont think its fair that your halforc paladin doesnt whoop as much ass as an aasimar favored soul than ima just have to tell you to DEAL WITH IT.

Its already bad enough that classes that arent strong in combat get the shaft because the whole game and most events are nothing but grindfest. But to have classes that do decent in combat complain about wanting even more? now that's insulting.

[Carbondk]

My lvl 21 paladin who hasn't got EDM (yet) beats Chaos and her henchmen in like 3 seconds, faster than my higher level cleric fully buffed.

I think it's fair to say that paladins don't really need any more power ...

[Simian]

CRUD. Favoured enemy paladins will never go in, just a silly dip for cleric and the Paladin gets everything...

[Atlas]

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[Managarn]

like i said i got no problem with modification getting it closer to pnp.

With my only issue being detect evil which i never want to see ever. (that include the detect alignment spells) Because it just sucks for RP.

I know some server implemented horses and mounting them but i cant recall the name. If its ever done on bgtscc( dont think for a couple years but we got fishing so who knows ) im all for paladin getting their warhorse and similar mount for smaller races.

My point is that if we try to balance there is always gonna be a need for balance(nerf here buff here). Like i said, a game like WoW which tries to balance all its classes for PvP and PvE is still trying and they will try forever since achieving perfect balance is impossible and futile imo.

But from your suggestion, the extra smiting suggestion seems correct. And i totally endorse it if it get closer to pnp.

Other things though like instant abilities is mostly an engine issue/limit since so many other class have the same problem.

[Simian]

There is something I am missing here maybe, but how will dipping in the Cleric class give you the Favoured Enemies line of feats akin to Rangers?

Just re-read about every single post I've made in this topic. I've been suggesting a variant for the Paladin. And if one picks that variant, takes few levels of cleric, they get favored enemies and EDM. Not gonna happen here.