Make Warlock application only

[Enaylius]

Let me point out specific RP situations:

Last night a warlock known for hating and attacking elves killed an unknown tiefling, who we found out later was an aspiring warlock. The tiefling who was killed had good RP, the 'elf hater / slayer' refused to go along with the RP and ran away begging an ELF to grind with him.

There was another guy who summoned devils and said he was polymorphing them as half-elf summons.

Then there was another warlock who used her powers in public to attack someone outside of the Friendly Arms Inn. Later she bragged and threatened to use her infernal powers against others ignoring NPC guards of Lathendar.

Personally, I think it's far more important that a person understand the nature of warlocks and the consequences of being one even moreso then the Red Wizard or Thayan Knight classes which are already application only. I'm not in a position to know exactly how many headaches are caused by or averted by making those two classes application only.

[Hoihe]

On renaming Warlock to "Eldricht-locker" seems a bit odd, since it wouldn't really make sense thanks to montaron pointing out Eldricth merely means

unearthly, alien, supernatural, weird, spooky, eerie

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eldritch#English

[Charraj]

I think Void's idea is great, except for one thing: implementation. Until someone actually scripts those feats or whatever, it's just theory. And it sounds like those feats might be a little complicated to script.

Making the class application-only is something that can easily be done, and is indeed already done for RWs and their Knights. IMO, it worked wonderfully to promote the RP of those Thayan classes.

Changing the consent rules for evil summons is even simpler.

A warlock sent me a tell recently, which went something like this: "All I wanted to do was go off and train, but they kept me in a torturingly long RP session."
So I agree that something should be done. Warlock levels are currently being taken for the OOC build benefits, but the lore behind warlocks is too complex and has too many IC ramifications for that kind of playing style. This was the same rationale for making RWs application-only, so I think it's reasonable to do it for warlocks.

[Managarn]

I think Void's idea is great, except for one thing: implementation. Until someone actually scripts those feats or whatever, it's just theory. And it sounds like those feats might be a little complicated to script.

Making the class application-only is something that can easily be done, and is indeed already done for RWs and their Knights. IMO, it worked wonderfully to promote the RP of those Thayan classes.

Changing the consent rules for evil summons is even simpler.

A warlock sent me a tell recently, which went something like this: "All I wanted to do was go off and train, but they kept me in a torturingly long RP session."
So I agree that something should be done. Warlock levels are currently being taken for the OOC build benefits, but the lore behind warlocks is too complex and has too many IC ramifications for that kind of playing style. This was the same rationale for making RWs application-only, so I think it's reasonable to do it for warlocks.

the poor guy, dragged into roleplay XD.

Though i dont really see what is the difficulty in scripting a token feat. The feat as the void suggest does nothing but be viewable by dm so they can see who is a fey pact or demon pact and w/e other sort of pact there is. dont think it would be hard to do. Only problem would be giving it to existing warlock though.

[Charraj]

Though i dont really see what is the difficulty in scripting a token feat. The feat as the void suggest does nothing but be viewable by dm so they can see who is a fey pact or demon pact and w/e other sort of pact there is. dont think it would be hard to do. Only problem would be giving it to existing warlock though.

Well, they'd also have to script how the warlocks pick that feat at character creation. I don't know how simple or complicated that is. I guess I just assume the worst when it comes to the level of complexity of dev work.

Maybe it would be simple, after all. *shrug*

[Blunkanthrust]

"All I wanted to do was go off and train, but they kept me in a torturingly long RP session."

Granted not every RP session is going to be the most fun you've ever had RP-ing but I think that player should probably find an action server if that's their play style, this is after all an RP server, the only reason to be at 30 is to reach your builds full potential so you can focus entirely on character development from there onwards, not that you ignore it beforehand of course.

In the Lore were warlocks on the surface? if not one option could be to throw them down with the drow.

[WeWhoEat]

Void has some very good points, and his ideas about having DMs acting as pact-giving entities and giving orders and such would be very fun - for one type of Pact, the "Serve me in exchange for power" Pact style. Common with fey and demons, certainly. Orcus especially is big on the "Serve me in life and I will make you into a powerful demon at death" sorts of deals, too.

But the typical Faustian "Sell your soul for power" pact does not have the devil giving commands or orders or withholding power if the warlock displeases him. The warlock is granted warlock mojo, and in return, on the moment of his death, the devil collects his soul from the Fugue Plain instead of a diety. Granted, this usually means that the devil will try his hardest to ensure that the warlock dies as soon as possible after making the Pact, because granting power takes mojo, and collecting souls grants mojo, so it is only common sense to collect on the investment as soon as possible. The one thing the devil will AVOID doing in this case, though, is ceasing to grant the warlock powers, as the mortal could then make a case in the infernal courts that the deal was breached and his soul, ergo, is free. Losing such a case would be a huge blow for devils in the infernal hierarchy, and so they would be very loathe to risk it unless the cost of not stripping the warlock's powers would be greater.

[Simian]

Speaking as a warlock, yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

Speaking as someone who has seen warlocks, no, no, a thousand times no.

For example, if I remember correctly your pink haired female character once or twice casted an invocation or two before a character of mine. That is the only in character 'evidence' that I've witnessed of your character being a warlock, all the other times your character has just sat by the campfire exchanging stories and so among the other folk by the fire. It is given that you have for certain nailed down the discretion part of being a warlock, but due to this discretion, how could I or anyone else know how well you have handled all the other aspects of being a warlock? Based on what I've seen in game, to me it seems that for all intents and purposes your character could just as well be a Fighter, Thief, Cleric or a Mage.

I am not trying to criticise your role-playing, what I am trying to do is to show how it is difficult to actually define a list of things which determine who can and cannot role-play a Warlock. For example another walrock could see absolutely no effort to hide the fact that an infernal pact was made, and that the warlock runs around murdering six people every 666th day in order to 'maintain' his Eldritch powers. Another Warlock could be just a poor sod whose great grand mother made the deal and this poor sod himself has no ideal of the specific details of the contract. And since we are playing while using the 3.5th edition rules, it is also possible to be a warlock without anyone ever having made a deal. It is perfectly possible that a Warlock's Eldritch power to stem from simply having a planetouched bloodline, or from being exposed to a some kind of 'crack/hole/fissure/rift/gap' in the multiverse that at a crucial moment of develoment corrupted the Warlock's soul.

With Red Wizards things are considerably easier, this is a short list of what you must do:
1) You must have a Bald Head
2) You must have some Tattoos on your Bald Head
3) You must wear Red Robes, even in the shower
4) You must read the Red Wizards of Thay 101 to know at least little about them
5) You must make sure your character race is Human
6) You must make sure your Wizard chose a School of Magic to Specialize In

With warlocks, the possibilities behind why your character is a warlock are just so much bigger. Therefore Warlocks are special snow flakes even if their numbers would make it seem that there is a blizzard out there or when we have just have a handful of them. What we really need is just people who know better to help those who don't to know better. You know, talk with the badly role-played Warlock and ask things IN CHARACTER to FORCE that WARLOCK to come up with IN CHARACTER ANSWERS. It was done in the early days of the server, and it did help some players to know their characters a little bit better.

[WeWhoEat]

No, I fully understand that all you have likely seen is my sitting by the campfire, back when you used to play on the server. But I have done plenty of warlocky things, just not in the day or two that you have played since I rolled her. But we digress.

It would be very easy to at least have some form of short "Read this and sign if you want to play a warlock" waiver that would explain a few things, like the nature of Pacts, the mechanics of invocations as spell-like-abilities, sources of Pacts, potential consequences of Pacts, information about public perception of warlocks, just information in general so that the player can make informed choices rather than just thinking "Oh, a warlock is just a sorcerer with fewer spells known and more spells per day."

I am not even talking about ~requirements~ to play a warlock, as I think that such would likely stifle RP, since warlocks can be, as you said, special snowflakes. But at the very least we should make every effort to have the players informed about why playing a warlock is different, just as we have an NPC and signs in the Nexus talking about why playing grey orcs are different. Even the addition of a small text blurb in the class selection screen would be fine, something in red letters that says "Warning: Warlock levels may be hazardous to your health"

[Xanfyrst]

I've ever only seen your lock sit at that cursed campfire. I sometimes wondered if she was even capable of walking. ;P

[WeWhoEat]

I've ever only seen your lock sit at that cursed campfire. I sometimes wondered if she was even capable of walking. ;P

It is all because Charraj but superglue on the bench. *Nod nod* She has been stuck there ever since.

[Blunkanthrust]

I am not even talking about ~requirements~ to play a warlock, as I think that such would likely stifle RP, since warlocks can be, as you said, special snowflakes. But at the very least we should make every effort to have the players informed about why playing a warlock is different, just as we have an NPC and signs in the Nexus talking about why playing grey orcs are different. Even the addition of a small text blurb in the class selection screen would be fine, something in red letters that says "Warning: Warlock levels may be hazardous to your health"

Certainly I wholeheartedly agree with this, encouraging informed role play is the definite course of action required here in my opinion. This server would become a very hostile and unpleasant place to be if people were constantly telling you how to RP and trying to keep you within a very defined box, rather than informing you of the consequences of your class selection.

I suppose in some ways it's playing semantic games but "guidelines" sounds much more positive, flexible and encouraging, than using the word "rules" for example. We basically need some Warlock guidelines for people to build a character around.

[Hoihe]

Maybe it would be possible to script Mystra to check for Warlock Class as she does with race already and if such happens and the warlock in question did not speak with her before, they'd be fed with basic lore on them from Mystra. Once it's over they'd receive a token from Mystra that exempts them from having to talk to her again!

Token is so that our current 'locks also get it and if players take warlock levels AFTER their first level.

[Rasael]

Hmmmmmm yes - this would be a neat project

[Blunkanthrust]

That would be good but to stop bottlenecking you could make it so that warlocks have to talk to an additional NPC in the nexus to get that token or there could be a lot of impatient people standing around while somebody slowly reads the lore. You know how when you create a new character the language box pops up in the nexus could you do something similar but with a little message about consequences?