Drow Exile?

[Empoweredfan]

This conversation is so old and done, that it is just irritating at this point. If drow coukd freely play on the surface, there would be none left in the UD. If there were none left, then there were no need for a UD. Without a UD, there is no need for Drow, and they should be removed.

I say this as a player with a main toon as a drow eilistraeean. The UD is built by players, first and foremost. For it to bloom, the seperatist playstyle needs to change, and that takes all of us. Besides, being an exile is boring. You spend a lot of time not moving, and even more time not roleplaying.

[DM_Absolution]

This conversation is so old and done, that it is just irritating at this point. If drow coukd freely play on the surface, there would be none left in the UD. If there were none left, then there were no need for a UD. Without a UD, there is no need for Drow, and they should be removed.

I say this as a player with a main toon as a drow eilistraeean. The UD is built by players, first and foremost. For it to bloom, the seperatist playstyle needs to change, and that takes all of us. Besides, being an exile is boring. You spend a lot of time not moving, and even more time not roleplaying.

All well and fine, but my points about the UD still stands, it sorely needs change and it needs to expand. The idea of exile to the surface is a result of that lack of change. We need more areas suitable for RP, and more areas in general, but this is another discussion obviously. Do bear in mind though that not all Eilistraeens would be happy to play in the UD the whole time, they would probably enjoy periods above.

[Empoweredfan]

I can agree to that, but they are free to do so with the rules that are in place. It is not safe by any means, but possible.

[ctothep]

Why would it have to expand? How would that create more buzz down there? Because new areas to explore? Sure, that will last 2 weeks then everyone has seen the new stuff and will go back to their surface chars. I don't think people are discouraged to play a UD char because it's not as big as the surface. The UD here is pretty large in my opinion, the only thing id like to see is one or two big dungeons for high levels.

Also let's say there is another city implentend (menzo for example) that would only spread out the UD playerbase even more. Lolth chars will only stay in Menzo while the rest is in S'shamath, giving less opportunity to interact.

What really needs to be changed though is how punishing it is for new players down there. Not people who played on the server for a while but people that are completely new and don't have a high lvl to fund them.

A few weeks ago there was a new player starting a svirfneblin. Mind you a svirfneblin needs 6k exp to get to lvl 2 which is forever if you are a completely new player. You also die so easily as a lvl 1 it's not even funny.

Afaik he gave up to get to lvl 2 and is playing on the surface now.

[DM_Absolution]

Why would it have to expand? How would that create more buzz down there? Because new areas to explore? Sure, that will last 2 weeks then everyone has seen the new stuff and will go back to their surface chars. I don't think people are discouraged to play a UD char because it's not as big as the surface. The UD here is pretty large in my opinion, the only thing id like to see is one or two big dungeons for high levels.

Also let's say there is another city implentend (menzo for example) that would only spread out the UD playerbase even more. Lolth chars will only stay in Menzo while the rest is in S'shamath, giving less opportunity to interact.

This is not about creating a temporary buzz, it is to create variety, something it needs. You are making some assumptions here, and without anything to back it up. Let us say that a few surface players give UD a try after noticing more DM attention and new areas, why do you think they will return to the surface? Why do you think most people play on the surface to begin with? Think these questions through.

And yes, it needs more variety for higher levels as well, as well as being more friendly to beginners. Also due to the lower population in the UD, it is especially hard for new players, as they will struggle even more to find other players to group up with.

[ctothep]

Why would it have to expand? How would that create more buzz down there? Because new areas to explore? Sure, that will last 2 weeks then everyone has seen the new stuff and will go back to their surface chars. I don't think people are discouraged to play a UD char because it's not as big as the surface. The UD here is pretty large in my opinion, the only thing id like to see is one or two big dungeons for high levels.

Also let's say there is another city implentend (menzo for example) that would only spread out the UD playerbase even more. Lolth chars will only stay in Menzo while the rest is in S'shamath, giving less opportunity to interact.

This is not about creating a temporary buzz, it is to create variety, something it needs. You are making some assumptions here, and without anything to back it up. Let us say that a few surface players give UD a try after noticing more DM attention and new areas, why do you think they will return to the surface? Why do you think most people play on the surface to begin with? Think these questions through.

And yes, it needs more variety for higher levels as well, as well as being more friendly to beginners. Also due to the lower population in the UD, it is especially hard for new players, as they will struggle even more to find other players to group up with.

I don't know. My guess is that there is simply more rp on the surface because a larger playerbase. Perhaps the whole UD rp is not something they are very fond of. There could be many reasons.

However i don't think people play on the surface because it is simply bigger (area wise). Perhaps i am wrong but that's just my opinion.

[DM_Absolution]

I don't know. My guess is that there is simply more rp on the surface because a larger playerbase. Perhaps the whole UD rp is not something they are very fond of. There could be many reasons.

However i don't think people play on the surface because it is simply bigger (area wise). Perhaps i am wrong but that's just my opinion.

If i remember correctly the surface was made first on this server (Understandably and hence the name ), and therefore it is the biggest. This is what i think led to the situation that we have today, that our surface population is much larger. Do not take this as critique against the intention of the staff, i believe many of them play in the UD themselves, but it is simply an old trend that has continued to this day. I do not want the UD to become so large that most of the playerbase spends their time there, i only want more variety and new areas in the UD, as well as less strict rules about travelling to the surface. This will allow Eilistraeens and others with similar intentions to play their characters fully. Remember that surface comes with KoS and permadeath strikes, so i -doubt- it will become a problem with too many UD'ers on the surface-

[Steve]

There was a whole plan and lots of Dev work on a Middledark. It would create a "borderlands" of sorts that would provide more realistic and Lore based interaction between the Surface and The Basement. It just needs to get implemented. So...hold your breath!!!

[Selande]

Eilistraee ruins drow (for me).

There. I said it.
Okay it's really the super geeky faux-kawaii Eilistraee-drow-playing-players that ruin drow for me. But by extension and simplification, the above statement works fine.


Being a drow on the surface kinda sucks. People avoid you or make roleplay really awkward sometimes. You spend 98% of your time ROLEPLAYING CORRECTLY and ALONE otherwise you're just kinda godmodding/metagaming locations/guards/players and just end up causing trouble.

[DM_Absolution]

Eilistraee ruins drow (for me).

There. I said it.
Okay it's really the super geeky faux-kawaii Eilistraee-drow-playing-players that ruin drow for me. But by extension and simplification, the above statement works fine.


Being a drow on the surface kinda sucks. People avoid you or make roleplay really awkward sometimes. You spend 98% of your time ROLEPLAYING CORRECTLY and ALONE otherwise you're just kinda godmodding/metagaming locations/guards/players and just end up causing trouble.

Oh Selande, don't be such a buzz killington.

[Selande]

Well I could go in-depth about a personal series of rules I adhere to when trotting under the sun but it would ruin some of the future funsies and I don't expect other people to see the sense in them.

I go a long way out of my way to not cause trouble where I'm not supposed to be. The majority of drow-on-surface stuff I've seen tends to be the opposite. People like attention I guess.

[Storm Munin]

Hear ye, hear ye.

Wise words Selande.


Things you can do while spending time on the surface, daytime:
Roleplay making a delicious crab soup in a secure and dark location.
Share the meal with friends.
Have business meetings with dastardly factions and people.

Things you can do while spending time on the surface, night time:
Watch the stars while strolling the woods.
Perhaps go fishing.
Share the experience with a friend or pet.
Have business meetings with dastardly factions and people.


Neither of the above have to include any public display, confrontation or disturbance to the drow haters at large.
Be creative?


As for Eilistraeean and Vhaerunite afaik there actually exist settlements in the Above. Primarily centered around forest of Cormanthor and to some degree the High Moor in the lore (nomadic groups rather than villages mind).

Extract from wiki on Cormanthor:
The realm became scattered and divided, and ultimately in 1344 DR the elves began the Retreat, when more than 90% of their population abandoned Cormanthor's woods for other settlements in the west.

The woods of Cormanthor became infested with drow after the retreat, who moved into the abandoned habitats of their kin. These drow attempted to seize the mythals and use the power for their own purposes.

Heck, Lolth even has a surface temple in Thay run by humans.

The High Moor have a underground drow city with Eilistraeean, Lolthite and Slime worshiper factions.
Sadly this was not elected as the UD site of origin.
Perhaps it can be added at a latter date.


I hope to one day to be contributing to a surface drow settlement on this server.
That settlement will hopefully be destroyed by the DMs moments after some moron player decides to go from there to promote in-your-face roleplay with their toon.
Surface life must be harsh and unforbidding for the village idiot drow toons, for the betterment of all.


On a sidetrack I fail to see why halfdrow are not permitted to have a surface option.
But that is for another thread.

[DM_Absolution]

Storm and Selande, tsk tsk.. Well i will not add more to this discussion.

[Israe]

Ok i just erased a massive post i wrote, simply because i think i was derailing the topic.
I will just quickly give my opinion on why some drow wish for change, whether it be allowing them to have a surface guild or anything that can spark controversy.

1) UD lacks RP hubs, and this hinders RP
2) UD is too small, it needs to expand. (Size wise)
3) Eilistraeens and followers of Vhaeraun are slightly inhibited because they cannot fully follow what the Dogma of these gods states. (Short version)
4) The rules about going to the surface are too strict (Surface raids pretty much needs DM oversight to be allowed, otherwise it will cause problems)
5) UD generally needs more DM attention, especially towards allowing the aforementioned.

What i have stated here are just my very subjective opinions based on my own experience playing, and DM'ing in the UD.

I might already be derailing slightly with this post, but it seems this boils down to some core problems.

Absolution

Absolution has some huge points! I play drow because I enjoy the drow RP. It isn't a "Cool I'm a black skinned elf! cool stats." Character. The drow RP in itself can be amazing, however I've been complaining for 2 years ago about underdark wilds being basically unfinished. Lack of hunting areas. Lack of DM's. I've been complaining with tact, none the less. I think this is a portion of what is driving players to want to go to surface, because in UD you can kill the pit fiend over and over, and that is it :/ Civilized areas are fine, but we could really use a place like gnoll caverns and wyrm caves, as well as some long dungeons like the serpent hills Yuan-Ti temple. It has been getting utterly repetitive. The joke among us long time drow players is "You will kill a lot of Duergar." I do think our quest are pretty easy to accomplish, you can get much more surface if you do all the surface quest areas, but ours are pretty quick. A big thing I really could go for is more reasons for surfacers to come down, so we do get some RP with them as well. The conflict is fun if done with tact and respect for the players. I kind of wish there was a place in between that was open to cross-realm hostilities and shared between surface and UD, that is a lot more simple than Nethereze maze.

What I'm getting at basically-
1. We need DM's. As a long time drow player, I don't feel that DM's have favortism, I feel that we are DISFAVORED. As if we are a plague or something.
2. We need more areas, and more exploration.
3. Cross Realm RP and conflict is VERY positive for players, if done maturely. If not, well you have send to home location.

Also, we desperately need to be able to have slaves. Not the "ERP I wish I was on Haven" type, the house battle slave type. Duergar, Tanarukks, and other of the monsterous PC's would likely be more active in the UD as well if we could have them as house slaves. The way we're working around it right now is IMO terrible rp, but we're working with server rules.

[Aelcar]

What I'm getting at basically-
1. We need DM's. As a long time drow player, I don't feel that DM's have favortism, I feel that we are DISFAVORED. As if we are a plague or something.
2. We need more areas, and more exploration.
3. Cross Realm RP and conflict is VERY positive for players, if done maturely. If not, well you have send to home location.

I don't think so, Israe.

1) The UD needs DM attention, like everything and everywhere else. But nobody is DISFAVORED: DMs just generally don't feel confident to DM the UD, and leave it alone for fear of making decisive mistakes and upset players. It is up to the players themselves to do some extra work to help the DMs, or BECOME DMs.

2) Areas and exploration are fine, but when I was playing in the UD, I had fun even in a single room for hours. What you need, is players committed to the UD, instead of this Surface Drow crap (sorry, no disrespect meant ). To generate intrigue you need the people, you need the factions, you need plans and counter-moves...not only the "silence, I kill you!" PvP stuff...that's a small, latent part of it. Without the committed people, the areas won't save you from boredom.

3) I have rarely ever seen it "done maturely". It utopistic at best, but yeah, one can dream...personally speaking, never been overly optimistic, though...

TL;DR -> Committed people (5-6 players, 2-3 factions...the rest will come), that PLAY IN THE UD, with the objective of PLAYING IN THE UD instead of going anywhere else...and intrigue. Shadows, cobwebs, smoke and mirrors...PvP crap kept to a minimum, but with amazing, everlasting consequences agreed among the players to make it COUNT, instead of dying like flies only to come back and die again...and come back.

That's what you need. When the UD had that, we used to have LOADS of fun, and the areas were less than now, and the DMs just as rare.