Holy Sword and Bless Weapon wands

[Boddynock]

@ Thids:

If the spell is unbalanced, the answer is to balance the spell, not make a special exception regarding wands. That is an answer to a different question.

If +5 and 2d6 holy damage is too much, then it is too much, it isn't too much in the hands of some characters and not others. It is either too strong, or it isn't. Make it +5 and 1d4 then, or +4 and 1d6, but what does that have to do with whether or not it can be stored in a wand?

[thids]

@ Thids:

If the spell is unbalanced, the answer is to balance the spell, not make a special exception regarding wands. That is an answer to a different question.

If +5 and 2d6 holy damage is too much, then it is too much, it isn't too much in the hands of some characters and not others. It is either too strong, or it isn't. Make it +5 and 1d4 then, or +4 and 1d6, but what does that have to do with whether or not it can be stored in a wand?

Yes, that would be the usual way to balance things. Except that hurts the class which should be using the spell and which is near perfectly balanced by having the spell its current form. This is an easy solution which doesn't really hurt anyone's build and doesn't require a major class overhaul.

[Boddynock]

Yes, that would be the usual way to balance things. Except that hurts the class which should be using the spell and which is near perfectly balanced by having the spell its current form. This is an easy solution which doesn't really hurt anyone's build and doesn't require a major class overhaul.

"Should be using the spell" implies that magic is exclusive in some way. If only the classes that get the spell should be using them, why not get rid of wands altogether?

And fixing the low hanging fruit just leaves a mess that has to be cleaned up later. If it is worth fixing at all, it is worth doing it right.

[Calodan]

You don't have an issue with a wand that gives +5 and 2d6 divine damage to a weapon for 15 minutes per charge?

I use greater magic weapon so I do not really see issue with a +5 EB to Evil and 2d6 divine damage at all for 15 minutes. It takes about that much time to clear the VOD for many so yeah about right on a wand that costs 50k. However it could be made so the +5 EB does not even exist on the spell then as a +5 EB is pretty OP unless you are level 20 or so. I see no mention of the DC15 Dispel on it either for some reason from what I could gather the sticky damages fix also made the dispel work now as well. I think being able to dispel creatures with a hit at level 6 is waaaaay more OP than a +5EB yeah? A wand gives a LG PC at level 6-7 a +5 EB and that is pretty good for going out on the grind then. So I can see your issue I just do not agree with telling everyone to get frecked on it. So simple answer is NO.

[Lockonnow]

and the spells from wands can be Dispell ?

[thids]

"Should be using the spell" implies that magic is exclusive in some way. If only the classes that get the spell should be using them, why not get rid of wands altogether?

And fixing the low hanging fruit just leaves a mess that has to be cleaned up later. If it is worth fixing at all, it is worth doing it right.

No, not if you realize the state of the server. Quick and easy fix with little to no headaches is preferable.

You don't have an issue with a wand that gives +5 and 2d6 divine damage to a weapon for 15 minutes per charge?

I use greater magic weapon so I do not really see issue with a +5 EB to Evil and 2d6 divine damage at all for 15 minutes. It takes about that much time to clear the VOD for many so yeah about right on a wand that costs 50k. However it could be made so the +5 EB does not even exist on the spell then as a +5 EB is pretty OP unless you are level 20 or so. I see no mention of the DC15 Dispel on it either for some reason from what I could gather the sticky damages fix also made the dispel work now as well. I think being able to dispel creatures with a hit at level 6 is waaaaay more OP than a +5EB yeah? A wand gives a LG PC at level 6-7 a +5 EB and that is pretty good for going out on the grind then. So I can see your issue I just do not agree with telling everyone to get frecked on it. So simple answer is NO.

+5 eb isn't that important and can be removed because... you use a gmw? oookay, a very objective opinion.

I am not telling anyone to get "frecked" on it, because removing wands of Holy Sword really "frecks" no one. Unless having access to a wand of holy sword makes or breaks some characters, but that really shouldn't be the case.

I will not get drawn into a pointless circular discussion here. I have brought this to attention (unless the QC has already been discussing it) and I have presented my opinions and arguments, there is nothing else to add from my side.

[mrieder79]

After giving it some though, I have changed my stance. I believe these wands should be useable by umd. They are expensive and have limited duration. It is a good gold sink for epics and makes the game more fun.

Taking things away will not make the server more fun, which is its point.

*IF* the holy sword wand does actually last for 15 minutes, then we have a problem. I would say the problem is with the spell and not the wand. 1min/level +5 +2d6 irresistable damage vs virtually every spawn on the server is crazy powerful. It should be 1round/level.

[Boddynock]

After giving it some though, I have changed my stance. I believe these wands should be useable by umd. They are expensive and have limited duration. It is a good gold sink for epics and makes the game more fun.

Taking things away will not make the server more fun, which is its point.

*IF* the holy sword wand does actually last for 15 minutes, then we have a problem. I would say the problem is with the spell and not the wand. 1min/level +5 +2d6 irresistable damage vs virtually every spawn on the server is crazy powerful. It should be 1round/level.

+1 for this

[mrm3ntalist]

and have limited duration.

They stay on for ever

*IF* the holy sword wand does actually last for 15 minutes, then we have a problem. I would say the problem is with the spell and not the wand. 1min/level +5 +2d6 irresistable damage vs virtually every spawn on the server is crazy powerful. It should be 1round/level.

Holy sword is a 4th level spell that cannot be extended, therefore currently it can go on for maximum 3mins. God mode for 3mins wouldnt break the server, let alone this spell.

The change is to fix the "for ever" duration and then upgrade the spell from 1round/cl to 1min/cl. The only problem here is the wands. Both in its current state ( lasts for ever ) and the recommended state (1min/cl for a 15cl wand is forever )

Easiest solution? Drop the CL of the wand to 3, the same with flame weapon, or even get rid of the wand for good.

BTW, how many complained about the spell lasting for ever? How many reported this?

[Boddynock]

and have limited duration.

They stay on for ever

*IF* the holy sword wand does actually last for 15 minutes, then we have a problem. I would say the problem is with the spell and not the wand. 1min/level +5 +2d6 irresistable damage vs virtually every spawn on the server is crazy powerful. It should be 1round/level.

Holy sword is a 4th level spell that cannot be extended, therefore currently it can go on for maximum 3mins. God mode for 3mins wouldnt break the server, let alone this spell.

The change is to fix the "for ever" duration and then upgrade the spell from 1round/cl to 1min/cl. The only problem here is the wands. Both in its current state ( lasts for ever ) and the recommended state (1min/cl for a 15cl wand is forever )

Easiest solution? Drop the CL of the wand to 3, the same with flame weapon, or even get rid of the wand for good.

BTW, how many complained about the spell lasting for ever? How many reported this?

I did not complain or report, as I have never owned a wand of holy weapon. The server's PVE content isn't that hard anyway, never needed one. I didn't even know it lasted forever from a wand, that seems bad.

[mrieder79]

I'm a little confused. This thread is about whether bless weapon and holy sword should be available as wands, not whether the bug should be fixed. I completely agree that the bug should be fixed. I disagree with the OP that they should not be available as wands. Now that Rasael has fixed the bugs (or is fixing them) then the duration is fixed. The duration is short enough that they are not OP as wands.

Last saturday I used bless weapon in an event and it wore off in the appropriate amount of time - about 5 minutes. Not sure if it has been changed back since then.

Also, when I said Holy Sword was OP, I was under the impression it had been extended from 1 round/level to 1 min/level. IF this is not the case, then I see no problem with the spell at all.

[Atlas]

-

[Lockonnow]

I have found a bless weapon on a potion then what sould be change to Good Aligned? I say no and what about item with find a item with Bless weapon or Holy sword ?

[Atlas]

-

[Eclypticon]

As long as we have the bugs fixed, I don't think we need to change anything. But, if we could, I wouldn't object to changing costs in crafting said wands. I would be in full favor of a new wand crafting system (which could solve this issue and bring more variety and balance to game play), but I regress.