Law Clarification

[HazNpho]

Actually, I think we all have... You came here asking for rule clarification and it's been stated many times but you keep prodding. Long and short of it is is this...

Use your common sense. You want a sign, then pm the devs and dms. I'm sure the devs have nothing better than to make up signs for incidents people have been smart enough for years to avoid. Especially right now. The devs must be so bored at the moment.

Yes, we play in a fantasy world, yes bizarre things happen on a per second basis... BUT that does not mean EVERY NPC is used to it happening in front of their faces. Adventurers are their in EVERY story in the FR realm that is canon, to either create chaos or protect the masses so they don't have to see the bizarre.

On the odd time that the commoner does, he reacts as you or I would being swarmed by SWAT guns drawn.

You want clear set rules, then read through the nearly decades worth of forums and follow through with your search more. I'm sure you aren't the only person that has gotten up in arms about this, but at this point it is beating a dead horse with a stick.


I in no way intend this to be an assault, I am sorry if it seems that way, but as the devs are currently working to restore the server, deal with a physical attack to our fantasy world, apply a major update, AND deal with their own very real lives... This is just running in a circle acting as a distraction.

[Rhifox]

http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?p=9#p9

Animal Companions

Animal companions, though they may be valuable to one's existence out in the wild, are entirely inappropriate in cities. Imagine what the commoner would think when he sees a person walking about in Baldur's Gate with a wolf or boar at his heels. Along the roads it would be more understandable, but do remember that it is not just adventurers who have seen these things before that travel. Keep in mind that many people would feel very uncomfortable, if not frightened, when having to be next to one. Good rangers, don't scare your neighbors! Evil ones would be more inclined to do so, and if it's within the personal RP of that one PC, then fine.

Summons

Much of what was said above applies to this, but even more so. Balors, Undead, and such cannot be brought along without attracting notice. I made mention of the Flaming Fist above. I want to remind people that even if a DM is not about, or PCs members are not online, the Flaming Fist still DO patrol the roads. For sake of RP, please do not wander the cities and the tradeway with a balor or such at your heels.

http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?p=547902#p547902

- Summons of Elemental or Companion in nature are forbidden, and such action will result in punishment fitting the crime. Summons of all other means, such be it undead or planar in nature, shall result in banishment or death of the summoner, as determined by judicial ruling.

The above is the law people are likely referring to. Note that the BG laws do say 'environs of Baldur's Gate', not just inside the city. It is unclear though whether Friendly Arm counts as part of the 'environs of Baldur's Gate', as I've heard differing accounts from people of whether BG is just the city and the farmlands or if it includes more of the server areas (like Beregost and Nashkel being under its purview prior to the Amn occupation).


This is also important, though, and probably more so:

-Damage to Property, including registered personal property, livestock, dwellings and objects determined as owned by any said individual, will result in incarceration and possible further punishment.

-Never may one enforce the laws of the keep without the involvement of the Friendly Arm's guardsmen.

Someone might react and kill a pet, and even cite a law, but if they are acting in the name of the law they are themselves breaking the law. Vigilantism isn't any more appropriate. Player characters aren't guards and do not get to act like they have some kind of authority to dish out judgment.

[Hawke]

As someone who does understand the "rules" 'round these here parts....

Animal companions,,, it's clear cut and dry.. You cannot attack them, without going through the motions of PvP consent (looking at you, you dog murdering insane paladin outsider).

The same holds true for summons.. they ARE attackable. Especially undead.

Cut and dry.

Now your issue is.. companions/summons and where are they allowed to hang out at.

Dogs are the only animal companion domesticated enough for the average joe to accept into civilized space. No Hellhounds, no grizzlies, no panthers. Sorry.

Now if dogs are the only thing allowed, then obviously no other summons would be allowed.


Outside FAI, obviously the outside is patrolled by the guard force employed there. This would mean, technically, everywhere around FAI would be considered "patrolled" by the NPC guard force. I know I kind of repeated myself, but trying to be clear.

However, it isn't really enforced, but it is godmodding the NPCs there when you walk around the Inn with an Elder Fire Elemental.


Outside the entrance to FAI IS where things are enforced, don't have your summons/companions out there, because you are definitely godmodding the NPCs.

Now, to get a staff member to officially say that... who knows. But the majority of the player base knows it is faux pas to have those summons outside the inn.


Hope that helps.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

But. . . but. . . but I want to have a warg follow me into the FAI while I wear a mask while wielding a quarterstaff weapon with a skull on it that drips acid! OH COME ON! I am clearly I am a horribly disfigured druid who needs his acid skull walking stick! I didn't max my dex past the 19 required for shadow dancer though!

And again we miss the point of the whole post.

And again we cherry pick replies and find one that is replying to another that was replying to another thus it must be wrong.

[Thibbledwarf]

The summon was an elemental and, it appeared just in front of FAI entrance where the wagons are. The user then went AFK and was unresponsive to conversation for several minutes. It was then that a dismissal spell was cast.

Assuming this is the incident Astralis is speaking of?

I speaking of general behavior against summons and animal companions over the past three months.

Additionally any specifics to any incident have no place here.

If this Elemental was yours then I would have to say that it definately has place here as this is pretty obviously what has you up in arms. If not then no they don't.

But as a whole I would say that your search for rules in a stated lawless place is a waste of time. I can understand how upsetting some things can be for example I recently had a new character assaulted by an ambush outside the FAI, she was killed, then rescued by another player. THEN this player went on to attempt to extort 5000 gold from my newb character which she obviously did not have. At that point he said then you owe me a favor, do not fullfill this favor and I will take back what I have given you (a death threat).

NOW, I am in no way complaining about this IC action and further more have great RP with the character and get along wonderfully with the Player OOC. What I am saying here is something that this player and I have talked about as well.

I see an IC action bothering a player OOC'ly and it becomming an OOC issue. To this I say, life in the real world is not fair at times. Thus being said life in game is not going to be fair sometimes. Suck it up and RP through it. Keep it IC and find the fun in it.

Just my thoughts.

[Rhifox]

Outside FAI, obviously the outside is patrolled by the guard force employed there. This would mean, technically, everywhere around FAI would be considered "patrolled" by the NPC guard force. I know I kind of repeated myself, but trying to be clear.

However, it isn't really enforced, but it is godmodding the NPCs there when you walk around the Inn with an Elder Fire Elemental.

Don't they only enforce things inside the walls? The laws page says that they don't care what goes on outside, except right at the entrance itself (since that could harm customers).

[AstralisAdept]

Greetings All,

Does anyone know of a place in game, or on the forums that details laws about Animal Companions, Summons etc. being outlawed on the Trade Way, Outside FAI, or any other place that is not directly inside a town/city/civilization?

If you have such information, please provide a reply with some details (screen shot, link etc.)
To further clarify: I see plenty of signs and posts related to inside Baldurs's Gate, FAI, etc.

Additionally I have seen several players over the course of the past three months role playing as if:

-Companions/Summons on the Trade Way, Common Roads, Locations Near Cities etc. was an unlawful action.

-They were the local law enforcement and upholding this (after hours of searching in game, forums and asking players/DMs) seeming non-existent law.

-This seeming non-existent law is a reason to PvP there companions/summons and player who created them (not off base reaction but in the process of upholding a "law")

-They know who summoned or controls the companion.

I'm really interested to see if anyone can come up with validation for this behavior via any form of proper promulgation from the DMs, Builders etc.

This is not a debate about animal companions and summons in cities, establishments and "hang outs". This is about clarifying the actions of few in areas where there is no laws against them.

[Hawke]

Outside FAI, obviously the outside is patrolled by the guard force employed there. This would mean, technically, everywhere around FAI would be considered "patrolled" by the NPC guard force. I know I kind of repeated myself, but trying to be clear.

However, it isn't really enforced, but it is godmodding the NPCs there when you walk around the Inn with an Elder Fire Elemental.

Don't they only enforce things inside the walls? The laws page says that they don't care what goes on outside, except right at the entrance itself (since that could harm customers).

Then it would be a fantasy thing... common sense says that you have to make sure nothing is going on with both sides of a wall to ensure security of something.

*shrugs* but I am just adding that pesky common sense

[Hawke]

Anyhow... from the example given in the OP.

If you are going AFK, dont have Tiamat hanging with you outside FAI.... go to the next zone over. Save us all a little bit of drama.

[NegInfinity]

So much talking about a simple thing. Sigh.

To the op: if you want official ruling, try "questions for DMs" subforum.

[AstralisAdept]

So much talking about a simple thing. Sigh.

To the op: if you want official ruling, try "questions for DMs" subforum.

Well people skim a post and get up in arms, its what ever.

[HazNpho]

Outside FAI, obviously the outside is patrolled by the guard force employed there. This would mean, technically, everywhere around FAI would be considered "patrolled" by the NPC guard force. I know I kind of repeated myself, but trying to be clear.

However, it isn't really enforced, but it is godmodding the NPCs there when you walk around the Inn with an Elder Fire Elemental.

Don't they only enforce things inside the walls? The laws page says that they don't care what goes on outside, except right at the entrance itself (since that could harm customers).

Near on a year back FAI was split developmentally into two zones, the interior of the wall and the exterior. This ironically caused as a result of a similar situation. The culmination of events were; summons being cast in front of the stationed NPC guards, open conflicts of PC's and casting of magic.

The end of this was the proprietor of the inn at FAI hiring his own mercenaries and enforcing his own laws in the local area.

Now, this is some time ago and my details may be fuzzy or outdated, so anyone who knows better feel free to update or correct this information.

[AstralisAdept]

As someone who does understand the "rules" 'round these here parts....

Animal companions,,, it's clear cut and dry.. You cannot attack them, without going through the motions of PvP consent (looking at you, you dog murdering insane paladin outsider).

The same holds true for summons.. they ARE attackable. Especially undead.

Cut and dry.

Now your issue is.. companions/summons and where are they allowed to hang out at.

Dogs are the only animal companion domesticated enough for the average joe to accept into civilized space. No Hellhounds, no grizzlies, no panthers. Sorry.

Now if dogs are the only thing allowed, then obviously no other summons would be allowed.


Outside FAI, obviously the outside is patrolled by the guard force employed there. This would mean, technically, everywhere around FAI would be considered "patrolled" by the NPC guard force. I know I kind of repeated myself, but trying to be clear.

However, it isn't really enforced, but it is godmodding the NPCs there when you walk around the Inn with an Elder Fire Elemental.


Outside the entrance to FAI IS where things are enforced, don't have your summons/companions out there, because you are definitely godmodding the NPCs.

Now, to get a staff member to officially say that... who knows. But the majority of the player base knows it is faux pas to have those summons outside the inn.


Hope that helps.

Technically the person starting a PvP over a summon/familiar/companion (citing a law or not) is the one godmodding. They're breaking every bit of law that the other person would be.

In the case of FAI:
-We are a business, however, and so will not allow brawling right before our gates which could harm paying customers. ((OOC: This means PVP at or before the FAI gate should be DM supervised as Bentley's guards will intervene to protect his business))

The laws of the keep are simple, efficient and subject to common sense:
-One may not perform acts of skullduglery, theft or similar knavish deeds.
-One must tie one's thumb to her belt if one finds herself to be of the arcane profession, be she a hedgewizard, archmage or similar.
-One may not perform acts of brutish force. Drunken rowdies, unsanctioned acts of pugilism and ne'er-do-wells will be warded or evicted from the premises.
-All arms must be sheathed or put away in such a manner that they do not immediatly threathen others.
-Profane speech heralding the next coming of the Lord of Murder is also not-done.
-Facial features may not be hidden behind a scarf, mask or face-shield while within our walls.
-Never may one enforce the laws of the keep without the involvement of the Friendly Arm's guardsme

[Thibbledwarf]

Greetings All,

Does anyone know of a place in game, or on the forums that details laws about Animal Companions, Summons etc. being outlawed on the Trade Way, Outside FAI, or any other place that is not directly inside a town/city/civilization?

If you have such information, please provide a reply with some details (screen shot, link etc.)
To further clarify: I see plenty of signs and posts related to inside Baldurs's Gate, FAI, etc.

Additionally I have seen several players over the course of the past three months role playing as if:

-Companions/Summons on the Trade Way, Common Roads, Locations Near Cities etc. was an unlawful action.

-They were the local law enforcement and upholding this (after hours of searching in game, forums and asking players/DMs) seeming non-existent law.

-This seeming non-existent law is a reason to PvP there companions/summons and player who created them (not off base reaction but in the process of upholding a "law")

-They know who summoned or controls the companion.

I'm really interested to see if anyone can come up with validation for this behavior via any form of proper promulgation from the DMs, Builders etc.

This is not a debate about animal companions and summons in cities, establishments and "hang outs". This is about clarifying the actions of few in areas where there is no laws against them.

As you yourself just said. "Where there is no laws against them."

That pretty much wraps it up.

Where there are no laws its is left to the strong to prey upon the week if the week indead allow them.

I am in no way calling any single person weak, i'm merely saying that this is a place where RP happens, sometimes favorable sometimes not so favorable but RP none the less. Take the good with the bad and enjoy the game.

[AstralisAdept]

Outside FAI, obviously the outside is patrolled by the guard force employed there. This would mean, technically, everywhere around FAI would be considered "patrolled" by the NPC guard force. I know I kind of repeated myself, but trying to be clear.

However, it isn't really enforced, but it is godmodding the NPCs there when you walk around the Inn with an Elder Fire Elemental.

Don't they only enforce things inside the walls? The laws page says that they don't care what goes on outside, except right at the entrance itself (since that could harm customers).

Near on a year back FAI was split developmentally into two zones, the interior of the wall and the exterior. This ironically caused as a result of a similar situation. The culmination of events were; summons being cast in front of the stationed NPC guards, open conflicts of PC's and casting of magic.

The end of this was the proprietor of the inn at FAI hiring his own mercenaries and enforcing his own laws in the local area.

Now, this is some time ago and my details may be fuzzy or outdated, so anyone who knows better feel free to update or correct this information.

This is good information. Thank you.

Seems to go with a DM ruling.

Chiming in here to say that the transition note regarding Flaming Fist keeping an eye on the FAI is outdated. The outskirts of the Friendly Arm Inn that's not in front of the portcullis is considered a lawless place.