Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

As a FYI, stealth does not work in Durlag's. Don't ask me why, I don't know.

NeOmega wrote:any drow on the surface should expect auto-PK, and visa versa. drow on surface, or human in UD, should be an exercise in staying hidden.

I don't know anyone who says differently.

The Whistler wrote:As a FYI, stealth does not work in Durlag's. Don't ask me why, I don't know.

its called an area modifier, there are several places with them

It works against the denizens of Durlag's (though it didn't used to, it works better now, though still hard)

chad878262 wrote:

NeOmega wrote:should be an exercise in staying hidden.

On this server????

Had to laugh the other day in Durlags when my Ranger with hide/move silently of 76/80 got spotted by 3 out of 6 in an adventuring party that was there... "you there, reveal yourself!!!"

Too easy to see someone in stealth for 'staying hidden' to be any kind of goal... The only 'spotter' that doesn't spot is one that literally makes an effort to put no points in spot/listen.

There are other ways to stay hidden, such as avoiding other people, finding places to hide, etc. I do it with my gray orc necromancer often.

I don't know anyone who says differently.

that was my impression from this:

I ended up RCR'ing my level 20 Drow and made a Half-Drow instead just so they have the possibility of existing on the surface at some point, without automatically breaking lore or getting PK'ed.

Ivan38Rus wrote:History shows that if someone generates good RP, it attracts people to the UD

It could be DM plot, or players themselves.

Also,

Boddynock wrote:I understand that underdark treks in lore are supposed to be challenging, but no more so than the other ridiculous treks PCs make in the span of a loading screen.

what

I mean

what

What I am saying here is we already suspend belief when we go from when we go from, say, the Boarskyre bridge upriver to fight fire giants.... There is no prep for any amount of travel, no matter where you are going or what you are going through, because there is just a transition loading screen. If we already do this for literally everything else, why do we still cling to the idea that we have to treat the UD as special?

NeOmega wrote:any drow on the surface should expect auto-PK, and visa versa. drow on surface, or human in UD, should be an exercise in staying hidden.

I agree, they should expect it except the current in game rules and more do not call for it. I speak of surfacers down in the UD.

If a drow is on the surface people will go out of the way to metagame their suspicions so they could kill them.

If a surfacer, who is an an arcanist comes into sshamath, they are provided a rudimentary protection which makes PVPing them for simply being there not permissible by in game law. Out in the wilds though, it probably still won't happen as not only is it something new going on but any self respecting Drow will seek to manipulate the surfacer and gain something.

chad878262 wrote:

NeOmega wrote:should be an exercise in staying hidden.

On this server????

Had to laugh the other day in Durlags when my Ranger with hide/move silently of 76/80 got spotted by 3 out of 6 in an adventuring party that was there... "you there, reveal yourself!!!"

Too easy to see someone in stealth for 'staying hidden' to be any kind of goal... The only 'spotter' that doesn't spot is one that literally makes an effort to put no points in spot/listen.

You were in Durlag's, that hardly counts. A blind cave fish could spot anything in there...

Boddynock wrote:An old dying blind cave fish under the care of Steve (who would likely kill it with first aid) could spot anything in there...

fixed

NeOmega wrote: that was my impression from this:

I ended up RCR'ing my level 20 Drow and made a Half-Drow instead just so they have the possibility of existing on the surface at some point, without automatically breaking lore or getting PK'ed.

There's plenty of Half-Drow that live on the surface. In fact there's an entire nation where they make up a significant minority.

im sure there is but you still have to deal with the one where they would be killed

and the loop hole with surfacers in the UD is a bit annoying, especially when its generally casters that even bother making the trip

Blackman D wrote:

Boddynock wrote:An old dying blind cave fish under the care of Steve (who would likely kill it with first aid) could spot anything in there...

fixed

Don't let me near your cave fish. You've been warned.

The UD/Surface "issue" was supposed to be resolved by the implementation of a Middledark region, which would translate into a number of Areas placed IG, where it would make sense that the two worlds would meet...for whatever (trade/knowledge/shameless PvP). Middledark has been on the "agenda" for years, and though I once heard it was near completion, BGTSCC is still crawling forward with updates and additions.

But a "where the frack is Middledark?" answer would be interesting to hear from Staff.

Personally, I've jumped down into The Basement a few times, but whenever I have, it seemed nothing was going on there (except for Drow fishing for XP). I always ask myself "what can be accomplished down there?" when ever I log my Svirf, and I really cannot get a feel for it.

On the Surface, one can accomplish a lot. Not only in finding other Players—which is yuge—but 90% of the DMs are DMing on the Surface, so you're much more likely to get support from them with NPCs, or just storylines in general. Though there is the general statement of "if you build it, they will come...," but then I still ask: what is to be accomplished in Sshamath? Become a ruling House? Then what? Become a ArchMage dominator of All That Is Magic? Then what? Be a Svirf that is undetectable and spies on those meany Drow till one day he can get his people revenge? But then what?

Nonetheless, what I find the most enjoyable on the Surface, can also be applied to the UD, imho: find a group of 5 Players that can be online at the same time regularly, and then start a storyline together. That small-scale support and enjoyment will make the UD—like it does on the Surface—come alive...because you're doing it for yourself, making it happen for yourself.

I wasn't here for the surface raids that were played out on this server. I would like to see us take a step toward restoring that dimension of Underdark play, however, as I know it is an integral part of drow culture. (The Blooding is a small example.) I think the UD suffers without it.

I propose a "probation" period where DMs are actively involved in the organizing and overseeing of those factions interested in establishing drow raiding parties and executing surface raids. DMs could control raiding parties/factions activity at first by a "hunting permit" system distributed in character by UD NPCs. (Not always PvP, necessarily; would be great to attack surface NPCs/settlements).

The long term goal would be that we are trusted enough to no longer require as much DM investment of time, control and oversight.

With PvP there are bound to be hiccups and upsets. We do have rules and guidelines to work within to limit that as it is.

What I'm proposing is restoring an aspect of play that I believe has greater potential to enrich and connect the server as a whole than it does to harm it. It's realistic if we are willing to work together to establish a raiding culture of maturity, respect, and of priority to the enjoyment of all involved.

Honestly, as far as surface raids go, there are two good options I can think of. One is have them as events so the don't require PVP (Raid an NPC village). And the second is run it like a team PVP tourny, get people to sign up on the forums and have a DM supervise or something like that. Even if it is organized people will still probably come, tournaments are always popular, and a faction vs faction team fight would be a blast. Just have some light rules to make sure the teams are relatively even and everyone could have a good time. Is it lore accurate for the drow to advertise a raid and say "Hey, we are bringing a team of 5 of our best, meet us with 5 of yours..." Well, no, but I bet it would still be a blast, and sometimes setting aside that 100% lore accurate goal in the name of a good time can be fun.

Obviously the second option would need some fleshing out as an idea, but it shouldn't be too hard.

well back in the day there were actually two guilds that killed each other in raids, a drow one obviously (tho it was more like everyone) and a surface elf one (the night hunters if i remember right), they did actually setup when the drow would go to the surface and they would fight

the issue came from people finding themselves in the middle of it and then complaining so many high level drow were killing them

and then there were those who didnt care because it looked fun and wanted to join in, but of course in the end he who cries loudest

and the idea of npc raid events was thought of too but at the time like none of the DMs actually wanted to do it which is why most the UD disappeared when it was cut off, there was no alternative

would be nice to have a drow raid campaign...