Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Just throwing this out there [pretty much a reply-in-a-way to the conversation of page 2]:

If you were to say... get a large group of um... less-than-desirables of some renown... accrue sums of wealth... RP (and interact with the DMs, expressing your plans)... accrue the required alliances, status, political strength, etc...

... and build/recruit/hire/train an army...

... and say... invade/send that army off to invade somewhere...

"Nice walls. Sure would be terrible is something happened to 'em..."

I think that sort of exchange would be fun as hell for players and DMs alike.
There are many things that can be said of the Thieve's Guild in the era of "Toy" that were both positive and negative, but the character and the conflicts that arose from it were fun as hell (for most characters).

My point from that last statement is there can be successful evil-PC's and guilds out there. They are truly needed on the server. What is a goody without conflict!? A Paladin without a cause!? A freedom fighter without oppression!?

We need evil. Not just pushy "I'm here, I'm evil, deal with it!" sorts (or at least not always), but the wide spectrum; the strong undercurrent of society types. Stick to it. Involve folks. Play the long game. And may the tears of the goodies keep you ever-hydrated.

This is my personal opinion and not a DM team ruling or opinion.

Sorry to get off topic a bit Karond, but I am going to replace "Sword Coast" in your question with "Forgotten Realms" broadly.

"How dark are the Forgotten Realms in canon lore?"

It really depends on where and when you are in the canon Forgotten Realms as a setting!

If you are a character in Zhentil Keep, Darkhold, the Hells, the Abyss, or Menzoberranzan, the setting is going to be very "dark" by most definitions of the term as these places are ruled by objectively (in the setting) evil rulers with an evil populace and it shows in every aspect of society.

If you are a character in Elturel, however, your ruler is in fact objectively a lawful good (in the setting) paladin and arguably many of the residents are non-evil, so the setting is going to practically be the opposite of dark. Celestia then would be pretty much be as "low dark" as you could get!

If you are in Baldur's Gate, the setting is going to more be middle of the road. Waterdeep, maybe leaning a little bit towards less dark.

Amn, not as dark as Zhentil Keep or Darkhold, but far more dark than Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep.

Of course, this all can vary based off threats that exist at a point in time, but structurally, I would say that the "dark" level is largely influenced from the political rulers of these polities and the societies involved.

Going back to our server lore setting then in the Sword Coast, Western Heartlands, and Northern Amn areas that make it up. We have in our game world Baldur's Gate, parts of Amn, and Darkhold. So in many respects, as DM Pun Pun said, we as a DM team right now not only try to cater to all alignment experiences of RP and their various levels of "dark", but our server setting in game in fact is a diversity of "darker" to "lighter" locations. To conclude then, we as a DM team and as a community of players have options!

Characters that want to try something in the setting whatever the players behind them prefer in terms of a "dark" setting are as always encouraged to submit a player request:

http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?p=613160#p613160

Generally the FR setting favors goodly characters. I'd argue D&D especially does so, only because of convenience to DMs on tabletop.

Evil characters that are open about it are punished, (Because they're often criminals) which is the same as real life. So yes, there is incentive to be good, because you're not evil.

This functions the same way in real life, there's a great incentive to be a good person whom works hard for their rewards. You can go down darker paths for quicker results but morality of society will punish you.

It simply makes sense that it functions the same on the server. Most of my characters are evil, though not outright. Some of the group RPs I've been in, have made this pretty known. But, sometimes an evil character might be more blood-thirsty and prone to violence against a primarily evil race (IE Drow).

This leads to a gray zone people might be missing, where evil characters may do sick and cruel acts that benefit goodly folk, but their reasons are not for their benefit.

Robin Hood for example, I wouldn't say would be Chaotic good, he'd most certainly be Lawful Evil.
He has a creed to help the impoverished by stealing (harming) from folk with riches. Be they corrupt or not, theft is still an evil act, as it harms another even if not physically.
I'd also argue he does most of these acts of 'justice' for his own personal adrenaline rush, and less about doing the right thing.

PaulImposteur wrote:Generally the FR setting favors goodly characters. I'd argue D&D especially does so, only because of convenience to DMs on tabletop.

I'm not sure about that... Vile Darkness had the whole chapter on running evil campaign too.

PaulImposteur wrote:He has a creed to help the impoverished by stealing (harming) from folk with riches. Be they corrupt or not, theft is still an evil act, as it harms another even if not physically.

Evil - in D&D - means egoism. So evil generally would not do something to help others, unless it is forced to do so (or in rare circumstances where they REALLY like this specific person). Lawful Evil Robin Hood is possible if creating good image is a step towards some other sinister goal. He could also be lawful good. Lawful Alignment doesn't specify WHICH law/tradition character follows.

On stealing...

Well-off elves surrounded by humans often become thieves just for kicks and giggles. Their opinion is that humans shouldn't be so tied down to material objects and pay more attention to more spiritual values such as good memories and having fun, and so they justify their theft. They never steal things that'd make the life harder, merely luxury items.


They're chaotic good.

The creator of the Forgotten Realms Ed Greenwood has said before his real inspiration for the Realms were the Fafhrd and Gray Mouser stories by Fritz Leiber, which are more like sword and sorcery books on par with Conan the Barbarian stories rather than LotR. And those stories read just like epic classic old D&D adventures but with more darker and gritty themes befitting a setting mimicking the societies of antiquity and the medieval age.

The problem is the people who owned the Realms; TSR and now Wizards of the Coast have edited it a lot to make it much more family friendly and LoTR-like in an attempt to appeal to the most audiences.