Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

DM Galatea wrote:To be blunt with you it is a time and energy thing. Every choice i offer a group implies 50 more. If you want the Pnp experience you crave then it actually reduces my workload since i no longer have to mind if the players actually win or lose. In fact the plot can collapse entirely and the server has consequences as a result.

As a serious question - is that kind of long duration heavily player driven consequences role play what you are after? If so, be prepared to lose. All the time.

This is just my humble opinion as an ADM and obviously represents only my own. In fact that would be my preferred style of role playing as a DM.

I think the PnP experience depends a lot on the DM. But here's what I want:

I want to start with nothing but basic equipment. I want full plate armor to be costly, and a +1 sword to be an exciting acquisition.
I want orcs to be scary, ogres to be dangerous foes of great strength, and dragons to be mythical beasts of such power that I seem an insect to them.

I want my character to lose sometimes. And I don't mean lose and respawn, I mean lose and die. If there's no chance of real loss there's no real fear of loss nor the excitement that comes with it. If I never lose then I was never challenged. If I wanted it easy I'd play tic-tac-toe against five-year old kids.

I want the adventure of becoming epic. Being epic is boring. Exciting stories are about the journey of the hero becoming great. Once they win it quickly wraps it up in the epilogue, because that part is boring. An epic hero that can slaughter demon hordes sounds fun, but it's one of those goals that quickly looses luster if ever actually achieved.

I want a clique that does low level adventures until we either die, or hit epic levels then wrap up the plot and retire. Then we start a new party.

I would have just moved on to a different server if Thids hadn't posted about low level adventure parties. The adventure party experience has so far been pretty much what I wanted.

The player base here is overall about the furthest from what I was looking for of any NWN2 server I've been on. But the server is an excellent sandbox and there're so many players it should support smaller groups that want to play by more restrictive rules.

The game world is full of literally immortal epic PCs, who know and act like they can kill you as much as look at you, and don't speak the native tongue of their homeland but are fluent in both dwarven and elvish. They ruin the immersion some, but can mostly be ignored.

In my experience, the ONLY way to enforce true RP is to induce a very low XP and very low magic world. What this does is make the game less about grinding to the top, and THEN RPing, and more about RP as development right from level 1. Since XP gain is low (Like real d&d.) a 5+ level character is considered very experienced, and a level 1 is still considered an above average person capable of many things. On that server, if you died, you also lost an entire level. One level is weeks of play on there, so it was a big deal to die. If you died more than 3 times, you would have to be resurrected by a cleric or some such with a diamond. So there was the chance of actual death.

This way, RP is the best way to progress, rather than grinding or item gain. This right here is also why NWN1 is more popular online. It has a lot of servers that have been around for well over a decade that run things this way. I used to DM on one of them, and played there for years as my first real foray into this kind of Rping. I haven't seen anything like it since, with the exception of maybe the very early days of this server, before this forum was even made, and the trade way had Gnolls and behind the rock was a transition into a weird swamp! (Smaller, tighter community, essentially.)

This server has gone way too far down the rabit hole of letting players min/max and power build and level grind their way to epic success. If you try to RP strictly and not grind, you can be somewhat successful here up until the point comes when you have to fight something in a DM quest, then you're hosed as they are almost always geared toward that group of epic characters that have a lot more free time on their hands than others.

That's just where this server sits, and we kinda just have to play within those bounds as it's a bit too late to change it now.

khaevil wrote:

DM Galatea wrote:To be blunt with you it is a time and energy thing. Every choice i offer a group implies 50 more. If you want the Pnp experience you crave then it actually reduces my workload since i no longer have to mind if the players actually win or lose. In fact the plot can collapse entirely and the server has consequences as a result.

As a serious question - is that kind of long duration heavily player driven consequences role play what you are after? If so, be prepared to lose. All the time.

This is just my humble opinion as an ADM and obviously represents only my own. In fact that would be my preferred style of role playing as a DM.

I think the PnP experience depends a lot on the DM. But here's what I want:

I want to start with nothing but basic equipment. I want full plate armor to be costly, and a +1 sword to be an exciting acquisition.
I want orcs to be scary, ogres to be dangerous foes of great strength, and dragons to be mythical beasts of such power that I seem an insect to them.

I want my character to lose sometimes. And I don't mean lose and respawn, I mean lose and die. If there's no chance of real loss there's no real fear of loss nor the excitement that comes with it. If I never lose then I was never challenged. If I wanted it easy I'd play tic-tac-toe against five-year old kids.

I want the adventure of becoming epic. Being epic is boring. Exciting stories are about the journey of the hero becoming great. Once they win it quickly wraps it up in the epilogue, because that part is boring. An epic hero that can slaughter demon hordes sounds fun, but it's one of those goals that quickly looses luster if ever actually achieved.

I want a clique that does low level adventures until we either die, or hit epic levels then wrap up the plot and retire. Then we start a new party.

I would have just moved on to a different server if Thids hadn't posted about low level adventure parties. The adventure party experience has so far been pretty much what I wanted.

The player base here is overall about the furthest from what I was looking for of any NWN2 server I've been on. But the server is an excellent sandbox and there're so many players it should support smaller groups that want to play by more restrictive rules.

The game world is full of literally immortal epic PCs, who know and act like they can kill you as much as look at you, and don't speak the native tongue of their homeland but are fluent in both dwarven and elvish. They ruin the immersion some, but can mostly be ignored.

Yeah, me too. And that is how I play, mostly. I have tons of items for lowbies, but usually, my chars don't use them.

I always have a plethora of all levels available. Send me a tell if your group wants an extra. I am usually on late (11 pm - 3 AM ) west coast time.



and


I don't think DM events should give out XP or gold.

also


I hate dying. It's not just the XP penalty. I just hate it. I don't need permadeath to make me want to avoid it. It kills my usables, it sends me back away from the dungeon, and I usually just say high to myrkul, respawn, and log off, or start up a different character.

I think if dying actually had a time-out time, (like, say a day per 5 levels), it might make it quite scary.

In my experience, the ONLY way to enforce true RP is to induce a very low XP and very low magic world. What this does is make the game less about grinding to the top, and THEN RPing, and more about RP as development right from level 1. Since XP gain is low (Like real d&d.) a 5+ level character is considered very experienced, and a level 1 is still considered an above average person capable of many things. On that server, if you died, you also lost an entire level. One level is weeks of play on there, so it was a big deal to die. If you died more than 3 times, you would have to be resurrected by a cleric or some such with a diamond. So there was the chance of actual death.

It would take me one server-lag-death or bug-death for me to quit the server, if this system was implemented here. :p

I have to admit I have never enjoyed low level/low xp servers, the progression was just too slow for me, and I have never been the best at interacting with other players, so I would mostly go and fight something on my own, and die. I personally think it would be an improvement if after level 15 or so, the areas required to level would be increasingly difficult, perhaps even to a point where a group would be required and might still fail. I also realize this is almost impossible with certain builds being so powerful that if this somehow was achieved, only the most powerful builds would succeed.

I suppose I'm more of a casual player, never having tried the pnp experience.

I'll be blunt about it.

kkrazlite wrote: ...

If you used to be a DM, you can DM again. Applications are currently open.

If you want the "old bg back", then the change can start with you, you should head into the world and start promoting it.

Head into the world, and be an example. People flock to amazing characters.

Log on, and:

kkrazlite wrote: -Role Play

P.S. Also "True RP" sounds a lot like "True Scotssman" to me. If you know a better way to play a character, log on and demonstrate.

I have suggested before, and I'll suggest it again, basically a cloudy system that keeps lowbies playing in areas with lowbies, middies with middies, and epics with epics.

Basically, as it is now, you can choose to start at the FAI at level 5. Why not make that option end at level 10? And once a character hits level 21, they should be looking at deep underdark, Rashemon, and extraplanar areas mostly.

They can still pay to be able to respawn at an inn of their choice, (I'd say 25 gold X level), and maybe a guild hall.

When I made the suggestion of separtion-ish for epics, teh thread turned to, "Yeah, more epic things to kill are needed for better XP's", which was not what I was proposing. I was proposing outland areas, that are designed to keep epics away from the rest of the server.

Also, quests need level limits. It is ridiculous when a level 25 is in the goblin ruins, or cloakwoods.

What in the blonkablonks is "a True Role Play Experience" supposed to mean? What even is a "true role-play experience"?

I try to find the answer, but a lot of the posts listed here aren't so much elaboration on the concept of roleplaying and what is the Holy Grail of such (if even there is one), but rather proposing changes to the server's mechanics, which can lead into changes in roleplaying but is not necessarily the same thing.

All I can really say, in light of all the proposed mechanical changes, is that there is a reason why "hardcore" roleplaying servers have tiny populations.

NeOmega wrote:When I made the suggestion of separtion-ish for epics, teh thread turned to, "Yeah, more epic things to kill are needed for better XP's", which was not what I was proposing. I was proposing outland areas, that are designed to keep epics away from the rest of the server.

First off, people should not be OOCly forced into only interacting with certain people. Especially for such arbitrary and un-immersive reason as mechanical level. The only thing that should determine who someone can and can't RP with is their very own RP decisions on who their characters choose to interact with.

Secondly, BG basically treats characters as half their level for storyline purposes. Epic level characters are treated as level 15 characters in terms of adventuring content. Extraplanar adventures is thankfully not something that BG is designed for, regardless of its 30 cap.

If we should do anything, it should be reducing level variation to one of only 5 levels (starting at 1 and capping at 5, or starting at 10 and capping at 15, etc), so that players have less reason to avoid each other and more reason to engage in similar content. But that isn't going to happen, because most NWN players can't stand not being able to get to the max possible level the game offers.

DM Ditto wrote:What Galatea is implying may not necessarily be a "DM vs. Player" mentality, but that if players wish for "long duration heavily player driven consequences", then they should be ready to accept losses as part and parcel of the roleplay as much as the wins.

Please, please, please. This is what plots should be. Winning all the time no matter what you do is dull as sin.

My first death on this server was from a non-consensual pvp encounter outside of the FAI.

I'm relatively new to the server. I've played very casually for about two months (maybe less). This is the first time I've done any RP in any game for a sustained period. It's intimidating and I'm afraid I'm doing it wrong, but at least I try. My first death was completely out of the blue, no warning at all with zero discernible RP reason from what I'm assuming was a max-level character.

NeOmega wrote: I hate dying. It's not just the XP penalty. I just hate it. I don't need permadeath to make me want to avoid it. It kills my usables, it sends me back away from the dungeon, and I usually just say high to myrkul, respawn, and log off, or start up a different character.

I think if dying actually had a time-out time, (like, say a day per 5 levels), it might make it quite scary.

I do wish death had more consequences. At least in Everquest (I'm dating myself) there was a potential to lose a level. However, I see others don't want that forced upon them. Maybe those of us who abide by this code just have an unwritten rule to enforce it upon ourselves?

I wouldn't just delete my character if it died because of a bug or lag. I think that's a rather reasonable exception.

I don't think a change in rules on the server is required. Just find a group of like minded individuals to play with and come up with your own rules. There's no rule against deleting your character if it dies or starting with only 1000 gold.
I suspect a lot of the rules here are largely to minimize the headache for DMs. If you're bored because your munchkin gear and immunity to death is making the game trivial then some of the fault is yours.

But, I do have to say that because it's allowed to just respawn if you die and munchkin away it's pretty hard to do anything else here. And it's not just the desire to keep up with the Joneses.

When my wife and I tried playing hardcore here people ditched us as soon as they found out. Apparently such a thing is unheard of and they want nothing to do with it. We're treated like there's something wrong with us.

The groups think death is just a trip back to the inn, and they'll think nothing of going somewhere that is suicide. To top it off they all have munchkin gear and you don't, so you're really in for a rough time.

Also, as she said, my wife wasn't killed by monsters, but a bored epic. The worst part is there's a ton of bored epic bullies all over with nothing to do but kill people. So no matter how careful you are it's not that unlucky saving throw you need to worry the most about, death is one griefer away.

After all that, we gave up and just play in the weekend adventure group. But the apparent interest in this thread convinced her to give it another shot. We'll play with permadeath in our PC Scry description and see how it goes. Probably end up playing alone until we get killed by some griefer.

If I see permadeath in your description, I'll Join. I only have a few characters who aren't munchkined twinked, but that is because most of my characters are just mules.


I must clarify: When I die, I don't delete the character, I just stop playing it for a while, usually. That way I can forget I lost the XP.

My first death on this server was from a non-consensual pvp encounter outside of the FAI.

As I am sure you know, unless you were drow, had a monstrous humanoid companion, or an undead with you, non-consensual PVP is banhammer time on whoever did it.

NeOmega wrote:As I am sure you know, unless you were drow, had a monstrous humanoid companion, or an undead with you, non-consensual PVP is banhammer time on whoever did it.

I had no idea, honestly. I was on a priest my husband (Khaevil) made for me.

"Hey why don't you try RPing this weekend?"

I zone in to FAI by the fire and stand away from this guy acting like an entitled jerk and wham! I didn't know reporting was an option. I do now!

I'm not expecting anyone else to delete if they die just because they are playing with me.

Xorena wrote:This is the first time I've done any RP in any game for a sustained period.

I hope you've enjoyed it so far! I myself have played RP NWN1&2 for about 10 years off and on various servers. Your RP is as good as most people and you seem to have literary skills on your side. If you're worried about lacking in this department don't be and also don't let other people get you down too much. There are bullies who think being evil is walking around outside the FAI flaunting their mechanical abilities and getting in people's way. You can safely ignore them with the current set of rules. (RP out and consent to PvP)

Perma-death is a fun way to play and I've met many players here who seem to enjoy the same rules. One of the best ways for a perma-death to happen is during part of a story where your character has more at stake than just GP/XP, usually during a DM event (I've never had this personally except on a different server). I may miss a few perma-death servers and the action there but I also like being able to get to level 30 and playing with all the bells and whistles.

Just chiming in since you and khaevil part of my adventuring group.

Young Werther wrote:

Xorena wrote:This is the first time I've done any RP in any game for a sustained period.

I hope you've enjoyed it so far! I myself have played RP NWN1&2 for about 10 years off and on various servers. Your RP is as good as most people and you seem to have literary skills on your side.

What a high compliment coming from someone whose RP skills I greatly admire! Thank you. I shall endeavor to improve. I am a writer IRL so that's why I write well. I don't do fantasy settings at all so that's where I'm in unfamiliar territory.