Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

The point is that the logic is the same. If you want, we can discuss logic via PMs.

Dagesh wrote:What defines immersion? Having someone write a novel about sweat dripping and smells of person's parts or whatnot is detailed but not necessary for immersion. Deep relationships don't need graphic details to be immersive.

They are not, and they don't. But they also don't benefit from arbitrary OOC-imposed limitations either.

Note in advance that the following is not about ERP, as I've said all I have to say on that topic in my previous posts and would like to distance myself from it. Below is just my thoughts on immersion and fade to blacks in general, in whatever situation they might be used (which are many).

Immersion, for me, is getting into the head of the character and living the life of that character, feeling what they feel, reacting as they would react. Letting the character drive the RP, rather than the player. I disagree that FtB can be immersive. It can be useful, but I wouldn't say it is immersive. Whatever the RP, I am bothered when I feel forced to cut off the scene midway because of something unrelated to the IC events (or worse, when I hear during or after-the-fact that another character didn't act as they actually would have because the player was worried about some OOC issue). The issue can be a rule, as in this case, or someone having to vanish for RL, or the server crashing, or whatever. Any of those are jarring and take me out of the moment. And once the moment is done, it's done. I can't make myself feel what the character was feeling again at the moment when things stopped, and so any attempts to resume where the RP was left off will inevitably be of a lower quality than before. If instead picking up at some indeterminate time later, you have to figure out just how the events of the fade to black affects your character's current mental state, but without having the actual experiences to inspire it. Fade to black works sometimes, where it's a definitive end to a scene and used to gloss over mundane occurrences that are clearly not going to provide any meaningful interaction or development for either party, but I dislike calling quits on scenes where there is actually a significant emotional connection.

What the Teen rating does is restrict how you can write, it doesn't restrict gameplay much. Tolkein wrote in a Teen-rated style and he did not have an issue writing a compelling story or develop deep characters.

As for ERP, some of the stuff that implies wouldn't even be allowed in a Mature(17+) game.

DM Pun Pun wrote:What the Teen rating does is restrict how you can write, it doesn't restrict gameplay much. Tolkein wrote in a Teen-rated style and he did not have an issue writing a compelling story or develop deep characters.

As for ERP, some of the stuff that implies wouldn't even be allowed in a Mature(17+) game.

This right here! What I was trying to get across before is that, while I don't care what you do with your own time, Liam has had meaningful relationships with sexual encounters, and I never had to describe them in detail, and I personally don't feel like I lost out on anything due to the "fade to black".

Also, Pun-Pun...for shame, get your mind out of the gutter brah!

Just a chime in, but a upgrade in the rating can also enhance the amount of lore we're allowed to chalk into things.

I'm not slamming DMs at all when I say this, by the way. You guys are good to me, and I'm more than happy to oblige in your rules. It's your house, and I'm not going to pretend it is any other way.

But at times, it can be obscenely... tricky to properly play certain types of characters.

Just as an example. My druid of Angharradh is a devout in the ways of Sehanine. And being elven, in and of itself, is such a... 'freedom' and 'revelry' sort of lifestyle. And when I'm trying to post about thing such as reaching into 'The Luminous Cloud', the way one does it, is, well...
It's drugs! Nothing hardcore. it's not heroine. It's booze, and euhm, well, uh... we'll call it hin pipe tobacco or something for sake of argument here. Mushrooms and the like. The 'bounties of nature' that are inherent in this sort of tribal, shamanistic lifestyle.

And elves, themselves, are amorous - particularly in the moon elf lineage. And who can blame them, from what I read they can only make kids once every seven years I think it was. They're rebellious, spirited things that are incredibly close to actual fae. Another bit of lore listed them as being incapable of getting even hang overs, so there's even -more- reasons they just party and go wild at the drop of a hat.

Ironic that I cringe whenever I see someone cursing in the game, but IRL I live in a area where we curse every other minute. It's typical, it's classless, it's uneducated - it's just not the kind of people you want to be, trust me. Would make for a interesting reason why your fighter has 8 charisma, though, if he couldn't stop himself from blurting expletives for lack of a larger vocabulary. Mnhahaha~.

Now, again, I'm not slamming. But I've seen my fair share of semi repulsive descriptions behind things like magical diseases, and undead. And plenty of ultra violent, or grotesque descriptions to, we'll just say 'stuff'. I'm not point fingers. I'm not naming names. I don't even want to see it stop, if that's how they want to roleplay and write their stories, I say all the power to you, do it. All I'm really saying is... Dungeons and Dragons is a game that has many, many extremes. Hell, the entire idea of 'ultimate evil' and 'ultimate good' is such a foreign concept.

Thayans traffic slaves, and are supposed to do so through their network of drug trafficking typically. It's just how they do.

And I will say, I don't want to 'get into it', but the orcish goddess of serving your man is... kind of horrifying. But. It does pose -another- reason to hate orc culture for the utterly disgusting, truly evil thing that it is.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I don't mind too much, honestly, the whole PG13 thing. And I don't mind keeping it to kissing and hugs and pretty nothings being murmured when Eva's being a god awful flirt. I'd hate to lose players over it if they truly felt really uncomfortable with the concept. And I've heard of quite a few serves that 'support' their ERP community. It's bad. It's really bad.

But I did want to pose another argument that is less based around ERP, and more about the cultures present within game. The last thing I want to see is requests to make the 'book of erotic fantasy' canon.

... unless it's for a good laugh, because. My God. That book is so funny. Disclaimer: Do not go and research that book if you're under the age of like, friggin 40, because it's that dumb.

I'll be interested to see if this thread goes anywhere.

Young Werther wrote:Most (all?) video games come with a disclaimer that the game's ESRB rating is subject to change during online play. Doesn't it seem impossible to perfectly enforce this rule? Just keep it out of sight and mind for those of us who rather focus on other facets of our characters than what's between their legs.

From my own experience ERP happens and it's a take it or leave it type of thing.

The disclaimer is not the same as the licence you agree to when you install NWN2. The licence is a legal agreement.

The disclaimer only means that Atari isnt accountable for online interactions. They can still enforce the licence agreement because it doesnt absolve our accountability. Only theirs. According to US law, where the server is hosted. In the EU these installer licences are invalid unless you had the terms available to you before the purchase.

Syracuse wrote:I'll be interested to see if this thread goes anywhere.

I sincerely hope not, because if ERP is allowed then I'm away. There's a time and place for everything and there's plenty of places for ERP already; we don't need it here.

Thorsson wrote:

Syracuse wrote:I'll be interested to see if this thread goes anywhere.

I sincerely hope not, because if ERP is allowed then I'm away. There's a time and place for everything and there's plenty of places for ERP already; we don't need it here.

I don't think I'll ever quite understand why some people are so bothered by what others do when it doesn't really affect them at all.

Favriel, it affects the overall roleplay health of the server when people lock themselves away in their little pocket plane to ERP it out. People have been complaining about unresponsive grinders and serial looters that don't spare a single line of roleplay - that is bad. Players I've known from social servers were some of the most articulate around; squandering all this narrative potential on ERP is just wasteful when they could be weaving inclusive stories for everyone.

http://ss13polaris.com/wiki/doku.php?id=rules

https://wiki.baystation12.net/Rules


Granted, the admins of that game have complete and utter access to every single letter of communication between every single player in the game at all times and the average population is just 20... but Heavy RP Space Station 13 servers are a decent example of working E rating.


As for relationship RP... Anything that you can't do in a public space in France/England you can't do on the server. Just like in real life you go to a room, you "fade to black" it on the serve rand just I don't know.. assume whatever natural happened? Fade to Black can also be used to skip routine, boring parts of a relationship too (boring if you do it the 999th time because it makes sense IC and IRL too, just not when playing), limiting its server exposure to the couple's intrigue and adventure.


Everything we might want we already have, or have the tools.

Romance and torture? Fade to black and assume stuff, maybe roll dice in case of torture.

Maybe only swearing and the lack of Dwarf Fortress level of detail to combat.

Favriel wrote:I don't think I'll ever quite understand why some people are so bothered by what others do when it doesn't really affect them at all.

If that were true then I wouldn't be bothered. But if we had ERP then at best slots would be taken up by ERPers and we still have times when we have 75/75 on the server. Even worse, stuff would often not be behind closed doors, a goodly proportion of ERPers are also exhibitionists. I know this because I have logged to a couple of PWs in the past without realising their persuasion. Let's face it, if you wanted to do this privately why would you not set up a private connection to do it?

People RP in their "Pocket planes" alone, without including anyone, and they don't need ERP as an excuse.

People grind and stay in their corners without RPing and it "takes slots" and then we have 75/75 and "real RPers" are denied their chance to RP.

People log in once in a week RP casually at the campfire bringing nothing much to the server, taking a slot too.

Taking 16 lines to describe how a man dances with his lady, holding hands and crap is fine. It brings life to the server and it's all good right? But the same amount of time to describe and evil torture, isn't because... BECAUSE.

I really love the hypocrisy of those complaining about how Mature servers and ERP ruins it all for them when they log off to watch Game of Thrones, any Mature rated shows where blood is seen flowing like niagara falls, where sex scenes with both men and women are fully naked going at it.

Keep your children locked in a closet if you're afraid the evil internet is going to corrupt them. I'm raising my own daughter , I don'T need the work to raise yours.

JCVD1 wrote:People RP in their "Pocket planes" alone, without including anyone, and they don't need ERP as an excuse.

Yes, exactly. They don't need it. So why give it to them ? Why give people an additional reason to be a deadweight on the server's bandwidth ? Cliques, grinders and looters are just as much damaging to a server as ERPers. I just can't see what the server stands to gain from opening the door to ERP ?

All this sounds like "I know what good and bad is, you don'T. Because If I wouldn't do it, it's obviously wrong".

The server reaches 75/75 every now and then. As if if we allowed ERP, gory violence and stuff like that, the server would sudenly be filled by streaking people, running as their guts are hanging out of their gory tortured selves. And thus, forbidding "good RPers" access to the server.

That's assuming that Gory describers and ERPers are all bad Rpers. I sometimes RP in my corner because I don'T feel like being disturbed by frothing Elves because Kahanak is a slaver.(:D just a random exemple.) It matters not if I ERP, Gory torture someone, make a lemon pie with meringue topping. It's not a less valid way to RP to -ME-, only to -you-. I might just have a tea session with player X or do naughty naughty things with that same player.

A matter of preferences, merely. It involves only those in it, consenting players living THEIR way of immersive RP. And For the love of Bhaal, live and let live?

JCVD1 wrote:-presumptions-

You still haven't answered my question.