Brain-storming the Underdark / Surface interaction

[Steve]

Xuat eszak, Steve. Udos orn jal inbau vel'bol udos ssinssrin..

Just don't forget the little people, mate!!

[Thorsson]

Shevarashian roleplay...... it can be a lot more deeper than a mindless excuse to PvP. There was quite a serious Guild back many years before I joined here. It can be done, and well. But I have my .....uhmmm.... doubts about it working well in the current environment here. But seriously, don't knock it 'til you've tried it.

Tried it. It was trying. Except as a member of the Night Hunters, but that was supervised by a DM. I'm utterly convinced that only contact between Drow and the surface should be via a DM.

[grymhild]

I believe that player empowerment and accountability with DM "support" rather than ooc meta "restrictions" are better for RP.

[DM Echo]

Hidden: show

Cormanthor and Baldurs Gate are actually pretty close.

Even though there is proof according to lore that there are Underdark races on the surface, even Drow, some players still would prefer not to interact with them. Sshamath was specifically chosen/created for interaction between various races, meaning the creator(s) had a bridge in mind, not a wall (a bazaar open to everyone and a passage leading directly from the city to the surface).

For us to say we don't want UD races on the surface because it's how we feel personally (they're too strong or I dislike the Drow and that's all that matters) and to purposely ignore/outcast them when it comes to major events is kind of messed up.

I'm not saying everyone in the UD should just stroll up to the surface to RP instead of in the UD, what I am saying is that if we were allowed to RP how we wanted without walls, players wouldn't be so starved to do things they normally couldn't do. Then again, if a Drow wants to say they're from Cormanthor, then they should have that right as well.

Well, if any UD players reapply for DM, BCC me!

Actually.. We are talking 1000+ miles as the crow flies.. But more likely about 1500 miles assuming they can't just walk through mountains or walk across rivers, lakes and seas.. Drow from Cormanthor, with little to no knowledge of the surface lands.. Would spend months of travel to get from Cormanthor to BG.. In a hostile land with nothing but enemies that want nothing but to kill you in every direction and not an ally anywhere to be found.. That 1500 miles would probably feel more like 15000 miles.

In our world 1000 or 1500 miles might not seem that great of a distance but.. Until the jet engine is developed by some crafty little gnome.. I just want to be the one who rolls the dice to see if he blows himself up with a nuke.

Just to put it into perspective.. we are talking about walking from south Texas to North Dakota.. Or for you in the UK.. walking from Madrid Spain to Berlin Germany..2.4k km

It is more likely if drow were going to reach BG from the surface they would come from somewhere closer like Mir, though the drow in the Mir forest.. Like many drow on the surface.. want to be left alone and keep to themselves.

[Maximvs]

A usual DnD game doesn't allow players of completely opposed factions to play together. When that happens, one side is gonna die, and then ... it's over.

I'd like more UD-Surface interaction, but I admit it's going to lead to a lot of pvp and a lot of dumb situations, mostly... "Hey, I killed that guy yesterday, wtf" and "I have modern rights, I'm calling the dm you XXX".

Maybe you guys could allow more interaction, but also put another pvp rule, if defeated on the surface ( or UD for surface people ) you cannot go back there for 30 real life days.

[ValerieJean]

Whenever I roleplayed in the UD, I have noticed that a large number of drow PC's have a desire to interact with the surface...

Typically due to the regurgitated themes. With the rare occasion that I end up online with a surface character, most of my play time has revolved around what the UD typically consists of, which becomes a chore more often than not and the variety isn't plenty as it is on the surface, and the variety that does come in the UD is only due when a DM is known to be in the UD areas; however brief that actually is.

Open the chance of death having a more significant role when in a location not designed for the character. Rather than just losing XP, you start losing levels and gear and the players can come to terms with whether or not they want to sacrifice that much for whatever opportunity they're after.

+1

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Would spend months of travel to get from Cormanthor to BG.. In a hostile land with nothing but enemies that want nothing but to kill you in every direction and not an ally anywhere to be found.. That 1500 miles would probably feel more like 15000 miles.

The Appalachian trail, a mountainous 2,160 mile expanse was completed in 46 days by a human.

I'd like more UD-Surface interaction, but I admit it's going to lead to a lot of pvp and a lot of dumb situations, mostly... "Hey, I killed that guy yesterday, wtf" and "I have modern rights, I'm calling the dm you XXX".

Just introduce stiffer penalties for death by those wandering in areas they're not meant to be in. An AT that takes into account a player's last death timestamp isn't too far fetched either as to provide delay from reintroduction. (Say, 30 RL days).

[thids]

Whenever I roleplayed in the UD, I have noticed that a large number of drow PC's have a desire to interact with the surface...

Typically due to the regurgitated themes. With the rare occasion that I end up online with a surface character, most of my play time has revolved around what the UD typically consists of, which becomes a chore more often than not and the variety isn't plenty as it is on the surface, and the variety that does come in the UD is only due when a DM is known to be in the UD areas; however brief that actually is.

Open the chance of death having a more significant role when in a location not designed for the character. Rather than just losing XP, you start losing levels and gear and the players can come to terms with whether or not they want to sacrifice that much for whatever opportunity they're after.

All of the drow that I RPed were Vhaerunites. Every single one of them had the goal of reaching the surface and either forming a safe enclave or staying there for repeated prolonged periods of time. If I persisted enough to actually reach high enough level to get through the netherese maze with any of them, that is exactly what I would be doing. Though coming up with valid reasons for being there on the spot when/if a DM asks me what I'm doing there is also not an issue for me, so the current system wouldn't have stopped me personally. I have also RPed with my surface characters in the UD quite a few times and was never asked the question why I am down there. That might be due to server lore involving Sshamath and the Zhentarim, but still... never asked a single question. That still doesn't change my opinion that the grip on the surface and ud interactions should be loosened a bit in some way. I generally agree that the best solution would be to make the interactions easier while increasing the consequences severely.

[Jaden]

From my play experiences with the likes of Brent, Surface UD RP has the tendency to be a rich experience. Strictly as a player it was a blast experiencing the UD as a surfacer (even if Brent almost got killed a few times for not understanding the culture). However, also as a player I can see it is a nightmare for the DM staff. Especially when the Maw and crew would roll up to the surface. UD RP is very fleshed and full of experienced roleplayers. On the surface end however, it seems that metagaming was a harsh reality (atleast at the time, from my nefarious experience the other night it was very good). This previously led to constant complaints from both surface and UD ends to the staff. That said I am all for more surface UD integration. With the smaller server we have now it might be the best time to open it up since the primitive BGTSCC days.

[Cubicle]

Actually.. We are talking 1000+ miles as the crow flies..

Hidden: show

When you're right, you're right. Check that out, 1000+ miles, it'd be like traveling from BG to Darkhold, then back to BG. Maybe a little further because of the mountains? But, what about the rest of my post?

Cormanthor being a reality wasn't really what I was throwing out there. My fault if that's what you thought.

[DM Galatea]

I believe that player empowerment and accountability with DM "support" rather than ooc meta "restrictions" are better for RP.

I don't. Mainly because DMs then deal with the fallout of two empowered players deciding that their empowerment then means they can dis-empower each other. Or worse, whole communities, demanding that their own personal RP tastes be upheld against counter-argument.

As an abstract example, a player deciding that their character knows the location and identity of their enemies and then decides to relentlessly hunt them down, abusing PvP rules to do so.

It is not pleasant to deal with these issues and despite the fact that it isn't my job to do so, it drains other DMs whose job it IS to do so. Hard and fast rules are far superior to 'support'.

[DM Echo]

Actually.. We are talking 1000+ miles as the crow flies..

Hidden: show

When you're right, you're right. Check that out, 1000+ miles, it'd be like traveling from BG to Darkhold, then back to BG. Maybe a little further because of the mountains? But, what about the rest of my post?

Cormanthor being a reality wasn't really what I was throwing out there. My fault if that's what you thought.

It would, by foot, actually be much longer than 1000 miles. I am not commenting on anything other than simple facts and numbers in this post.. I will discuss things said here with the other DMs elsewhere. It is just a simple fact that traveling from Cormanthor to BG for a drow is very long and very very dangerous and as impractical as a paladin traveling through Baator to get to Mount Celestia.. (okay maybe that is a bit over dramatic but seems like people are comparing the trip to a stroll down the Appalachian Trail..

[Thorsson]

I tell you what. Allow Drow on the surface, but take away Spell Resistance and the +2 to Int (they can go to ECL1) so they are roughly equal to surface races. If the RP is all they're after then I should hear a chorus of approval...

[Storm Munin]

Beyond thinking it more logical to remove +2 cha, considering the drowness origin, I have no issues with such a change.

Besides ECL+1 would mean an easier trip for the masses to lv2, thus we might get more drow.

[Thorsson]

Beyond thinking it more logical to remove +2 cha, considering the drowness origin, I have no issues with such a change.

Besides ECL+1 would mean an easier trip for the masses to lv2, thus we might get more drow.

I tend to agree based on the Drow characters I've met, but Charisma doesn't necessarily equal pleasant... Which is why there won't be a mass exodus to the UD IMO.