Legofsalmon wrote:I think there are a mixture of good points that deserve attention and some that aren't as critical. Sneak immunity stuff is just a thing that exists and a non issue. Yeah it can be very hard for rogue heavy classes to solo. At times but it's not all that bad.
That's why my main wish is to make their group play all the more desired. Rogues aren't intended to be solo power houses in dnd but having one with their diverse skillsets is supposed to make life much easier. Keep updating and designing areas and dungeons to let them do their thang and be rewarded. (More epic traps, locks, special pickpocket goodies!).
That said the pickpocket script just doesn't seem worth rescuing. it's a fairly useless skill as it is and you can't grief people with it.
~snip~
I think this thread is a good opportunity to highlight where we can look to increasing some of the potential fun and satisfaction for Rogues, not about increasing their flat power.
What Legofsalmon said. Rogues don't need more power. Dealing with content and leveling is a pain, yes, but the same could be said for many classes. That being said, I sincerely hope that the content never gets universally scaled up in difficulty.
But, I believe things do fall short in the fun department for rogues in several specific areas.
Scripts and skill penalties in certain zones that specifically single out and penalize rogue-types being the primary culprit.
Riddle me this: name any skills, other than sleight of hand, hide, and move silent, that enjoy either a script or zone based penalty designed to mitigate them? You cant, because there are none. Just think about that for a moment.
Now a small comparison: Wizard/Sorcerers primary skills are concentration and spellcraft. High investment in these skills is mechanically necessessary for wizards/sorcs to successfully cast/identify magic, and concentration is their bread and butter skill, so to speak. Currently, there are no scripts or areas with penalties to concentration enabled. Casters are free to dance with steely minds through volcanic areas, battling hordes of boulder hurling giants near magma filled pools, and never have to worry about the engine hitting them with an arbitrary concentration penalty.
Conversely, a rogue can find the dankest, dustiest dungeon to explore, but no matter how darkly lit it may be.... there's always a chance that the orc facing the opposite corner picking his nose might spontaneously detect the rogue... because there's a blanket mechanical penalty(or detection boost) in the zone. Speaking of picking noses, or pockets, or pilfering in general, the rogue has that to contend with too, as he knows he'll likely A: get dragged out of stealth the moment he sticks his finger into anything(ohhhh myyy!), or B: get metagamed by a script that has
never functioned properly and serves no real purpose, except to make a pick-pocketers' life miserable perhaps.
I have more where that came from... but I'll leave it for later, since it's too early for typing, and I need a coffee.
*Post-coffee edit* - What I'm trying to say here is that alleviating the relatively small issues I mentioned in my original post might go a long way towards improving the overall quality of life for rogues. There are even other rogue skills that come to mind when speaking of nerfs, such as set traps, and the nerfing of the use of epic traps that Calodan mentioned. Basically, like the players of any builds, regardless of class, rogue-types just want to reap the benefits and enjoyment of investing so heavily in their class-skills, and not be penalized for such by semi-functional scripts or blanket detection adjustments to zones. Rogues put everything into stealth(aka: their bread and butter), so why are they the only class that gets singled out by scripts and the like? Where is this bias coming from, and why has it been accepted, more or less, as the status-quo so readily?
Mallore wrote:13. Thieves can't is busted. Literally conversation I had with a rogue. "Where is the safe". Players saw. "Where on the safe". Geeeee thanks game.
Thieves' Cant works horribly, there's no two-ways about it.
Legofsalmon wrote:I find the comment about thieves cant not working being fine because barbarians don't get a language in poor taste though.
Yes, weak argument. But, to be fair, 'Cant' is a tricky one to make functional, as it's not really a language, per-se, but more of a method of speaking in slang(and sometimes signaling with hands).
From the wiki:
This hidden language consisted more of slangs and innuendos more than an actual language. The main use of thieves' cant was to communicate rogue activities, such as banditry, burglary, finding marks, and discussing loot.
(There's even a small dictionary linked there:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/T ... dictionary )
