I wanted to stay very focus, on a single ability, that was not matching its PNP equal, and wanted to address its use for its investment, as this is essentially a level 18 ability. Equivalent to 9th level spells, and some near epic feats.
But.. i will answer this as best as i can.
chad878262 wrote:Suffice to say there were a few game breaking exploits when there was no cooldown.
Related to Epic Dodge, have you ever tried hit and run tactics? When you strike out of stealth, immediately run away to restealth once the cooldown ends you can effectively kill enemies with no risk (aside from maybe casters, if you don't kill them in the first flurry, but as a stealthier, you should pick your targets better!) Simply put, Epic Dodge + HiPS can make it nearly impossible for a melee enemy to touch you.
While I believe you that there a "few" game breaking exploits, are these exploits still relevant now? Or have they been dealt with in other ways?
Your above example, is how the abilities where meant to interact in PnP. Infact that is what makes the Shadow Dancer a scary thing in Dungeons and Dragons Lore, and in Cannon. The idea is that a shadow dancer can leap out of a shadow, hit you, then leap back and vanish before you can act is the way its suppose to be in PnP. This is why feats like mobility are in the game.
While I hate the idea this exists... I have a few feelings regarding it now I give it thought.
Do I think this is unfair? Well, the class with this ability can get Finger of Death easier then many other class out there, instant killed. This class can get knocked down easier then almost any other class in the game, Instant killed. If you attempt the above and play poorly, you will fail and die. If the server lags, you fail and die. Also have to remember you can roll a one on Hide/Ms and just are buggered in many cases to.
Do I really want to play like this? Not really, but this sounds like a way for a class to go in and solo a boss. This is no different then most other epic level characters who can over buff and solo a boss anyways. All this is, is another way to play. This sounds like it will take a god aweful amount of time to do, unlike other power classes that will just nail and destroy things quicker, with less error chance. This ability also assumes you can hit and hurt the boss to..
In part this sounds like a PVP monster, suddenly maybe the FS is not at the top of the tree, or some other classes? Is this a bad thing? I mean, nerfing is bad, bringing other groups up is better for the game. Enter some new builds and wider variety?
What this does sound like, is there is a way to play that some people just do not like? Maybe it is some people will be jealous, or feel overshadowed? But these are purely emotional connections and not mechanical. And most of all they are not RP.
We are talking about an ability that adds to a class. We are talking about adding an ability to make more dynamic adventure pve play. I believe this far out weighs the current negative feelings on another style of play, that is on scale with the way things are currently on the server.
chad878262 wrote: Now, regards to SD 10 being 'worth it' or not... What about Frenzied Berserker as an example? What is the point of taking it past 5? There are many PRC's and even base classes that offer a lot more on the front end of the levels (Paladin 4 FTW!) so what makes SD special? It gains solid defensive abilities that mix well with both SA and non-SA builds. As stated previously there is a discussion because there are a couple minor tweaks that could improve the play of the class, but that doesn't mean it is somehow a crap PRC... Just as FB is not a crap PRC, it simply is not optimized to take more than 5 levels. If you want to Powerbuild go SD 3 (or 5 for certain builds), if not, and the RP calls for 10 levels of SD (or FB) go for it! you won't suddenly go from viable to insta-death in areas below your CR, after all...
I do not want to get into this as its way off topic, also I do not think its a crap PRC, whom ever feels that is probably not worth arguing with at the moment. However SD requires more then Frenzied Berserker, and really paladin 4, is Level 4, that can not be compared to level 18 abilities. Is this ability in line with other abilities on the server?
Mind you I think the class is a bit empty in the middle, and Ive expressed to you in the past what I think might make it cool, with out adding non flavor. (and yes im still against SA dice)
The focus is the cool down of a class ability that is exceedingly long and against flavor. I could not imagine seeing five minute cool down on all spells above level 5, just because they could be spammed... It may sound silly what I just stated but the Shadow Jump is the flavor of the class, while people think Hips is, thats just the best mechanic.
I would even enjoy a 30 second cool down, as by the time the cool down has refreshed you can use it on the next mob. My problem though still lays with Transitions, when you hit a transition the CD breaks to 5 hours. Yes you can go through your abilities and use it there, but the ability is suppose to be tied to your hot bar so you can press it for your defensive escape if a mob goes badly. After all this is a defensive class.
I suppose I leave it with this. It was once argued to me, it is better to add more things to the game then to take away. Prime reason why some people didnt want to nerf or take away the Favored Soul, its just better to add more classes and abilities in. This ability properly CD'ed will add more flavor to builds, increase PVE, perhaps causes some interesting PVP and maybe shrink some of the power gap people feel.
Personally... I just want to jump a bunch of times in a dungeon so I can get sneak attacks, kinda like the way its suppose to work, exactly like it was intended and is in PnP. Its just fun!!! Dont be haters!
