Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Is this class implemented the same as Kaedrins in the NWN2DB? If so, is this the final nail in the coffin for Ghost Faced Killer? Or to be clearer ... isn't Ghost Faced Killer very, very similar to 'Ninja'?

AC81 wrote:Is this class implemented the same as Kaedrins in the NWN2DB? If so, is this the final nail in the coffin for Ghost Faced Killer? Or to be clearer ... isn't Ghost Faced Killer very, very similar to 'Ninja'?

Similar, but different. GFK is a CHA-based class that pairs well with something like Blackguard, whereas Ninja is a WIS class that does well as your main progression but could also work for a dip in another WIS class that doesn't use armor (other than Monk). If you build a pure Ninja it'd play like a more combat-oriented Rogue that doesn't depend on HIPS.

chambordini wrote: How do you play a ninja without hips? Have to get those sneak attacks in somehow.

Ghost step.

Not saying it is as reliable as hips. Just saying it works.

IGMS isn't as reliable as Eldrich blast either.

Nothing to stop you from adding in assassin or shadowdancer to your build either.

Deathgrowl wrote:Nothing to stop you from adding in assassin or shadowdancer to your build either.

Getting assassin will make certain you dont get epic dodge, unless you sacrifice a lot of SA dice. Only SD is a viable choice.

mrm3ntalist wrote:

Deathgrowl wrote:Nothing to stop you from adding in assassin or shadowdancer to your build either.

Getting assassin will make certain you dont get epic dodge, unless you sacrifice a lot of SA dice. Only SD is a viable choice.

Epic Dodge might be optional with all that AC and those defensive feats.

gedweyignasia wrote:

mrm3ntalist wrote:

Deathgrowl wrote:Nothing to stop you from adding in assassin or shadowdancer to your build either.

Getting assassin will make certain you dont get epic dodge, unless you sacrifice a lot of SA dice. Only SD is a viable choice.

Epic Dodge might be optional with all that AC and those defensive feats.

How much AC is there? Maybe one more than the Rogue/Assassin/InvisibleBlade? Those builds go for epic dodge.

mrm3ntalist wrote:

Deathgrowl wrote:Nothing to stop you from adding in assassin or shadowdancer to your build either.

Getting assassin will make certain you dont get epic dodge, unless you sacrifice a lot of SA dice. Only SD is a viable choice.

Only SD is a "powerful" choice.

You don't exactly need epic dodge to be a "viable" sneak on BG. It helps. But the server isn't that hard. And lets hope it doesn't get that hard either.

Deathgrowl wrote:You don't exactly need epic dodge to be a "viable" sneak on BG. It helps. But the server isn't that hard. And lets hope it doesn't get that hard either.

Viable? You have something specific in mind? Becasue those less that 40AC rogue builds, will get thrashed when out of hips landing the first flurry and trying to get away.

To be honest, I havent ever played a rogue build without Epic Dodge, but i have seen the difference when the build gets it and that is to be able to be efficient when in epic content.

Thank you for the new class


It's pretty cool. Tempting. I would like to have seen 1000 faces with it as a level ten ability. (Just the disguise spell)


I would never rp this as a ninja lore thing. Personally it sounds like an Amn Guild Asssassin. Or House Agent. Even a Courtier. (The last would have noble knowledge like the gear has)


Anyways. More is always cool.

Oh god.

Passiflora wrote:Oh god.

Yes?

Mechanically speaking, the class is not a balance concern.

I have played one of these extensively in 2011, on Dalelands Beyond, before I even knew BGTSCC existed. It was my Drow Velg'larn.

It's comparable to both Rogue and Monk, except it's much weaker than both: it does not get Epic Precision (which can be catastrophic), it doesn't have the all-around synergy a Monk has with WIS (only +AC) and it's just as level-intensive to boot, making multiclassing a rather bad idea (better to multiclass Rogue or Monk, then).

Almost all of its special abilities are cool, unique and totally useless. The only one which is really good is Ghost Step (10th level+, the Jaunt, because Invisibility is pretty bad), but to use this one and any other of its powers you need to be unarmored. This coupled with the multi-attribute reliance means the (more or less) best you can do is a moderate WIS/High DEX build with 5 SD for Epic Dodge, grab expose weakness and cross/class UMD at least till 10 for wands.

This will be inferior to any Rogue/SD types (already not exactly great) and even more so to Monk/SD types, for instance. Of course, you could build Ninja/Assassins and Ninja/Archers, but then you can also build Black Flame Zealots...point being, there is no mechanical reason whatsoever to do such crap.

Conclusion: Ninja's mechanics are not a balance concern, it just adds diversity and flavor choices.

I don't like to enter the RP of races and classes, because that's a road that brings us to "only human Rogue/Fighter/Wizard/Cleric" types of servers which is far from what BGTSCC offers.

Aelcar wrote:Mechanically speaking, the class is not a balance concern.

I have played one of these extensively in 2011, on Dalelands Beyond, before I even knew BGTSCC existed. It was my Drow Velg'larn.

It's comparable to both Rogue and Monk, except it's much weaker than both: it does not get Epic Precision (which can be catastrophic), it doesn't have the all-around synergy a Monk has with WIS (only +AC) and it's just as level-intensive to boot, making multiclassing a rather bad idea (better to multiclass Rogue or Monk, then).

Almost all of its special abilities are cool, unique and totally useless. The only one which is really good is Ghost Step (10th level+, the Jaunt, because Invisibility is pretty bad), but to use this one and any other of its powers you need to be unarmored. This coupled with the multi-attribute reliance means the (more or less) best you can do is a moderate WIS/High DEX build with 5 SD for Epic Dodge, grab expose weakness and cross/class UMD at least till 10 for wands.

This will be inferior to any Rogue/SD types (already not exactly great) and even more so to Monk/SD types, for instance. Of course, you could build Ninja/Assassins and Ninja/Archers, but then you can also build Black Flame Zealots...point being, there is no mechanical reason whatsoever to do such crap.

Conclusion: Ninja's mechanics are not a balance concern, it just adds diversity and flavor choices.

I don't like to enter the RP of races and classes, because that's a road that brings us to "only human Rogue/Fighter/Wizard/Cleric" types of servers which is far from what BGTSCC offers.

I can second this, after playing on numerous Kaedrin Servers with mostly comparable items to ours (Dalelands with less, and RoD/ToA/etc with +1 more). On all servers, it was generally a fairly worthless/low tier class from a power perspective.

I'm happy to announce that this class is fully mechanically functional and has had the finishing touches placed on it.

Now there's just the matter of deciding on what we're going to call it and what the surrounding lore will be.

The two main possibilities are:
- Leaving it as Ninja
- Calling it Phantom, Shadow Warrior, or something like this and coming up with homebrew Sword Coast-friendly lore

I'm fairly indifferent and think it works fine either way, but I'm curious to see what most people would prefer (though this is no guarantee that the end result will reflect public consensus ).