Loot Changes

[Mallore]

Because you and only a few others are on the forums implying that you have little to no chance of ever equipping your toon with epic equipment. If there wasn't something stopping you, then you'd be out earning gold to buy items, trading or even finding the odd item here and there! Do you want epic items just handed out in the nexus or something?

Actually your wrong on the "you and only a few others" its more like only YOU and a FEW others seam to think this is a bad idea.

Why hate on this nice idea that MAY get a group an extra item? which will probably just be +1 =)

Because you and a few others want to play solo and will feel cheated? Come on, does that really help anyone? how is this hurting anyone master trader?


Also Im decked out in hell gear, and I believe this is a good thing for the server, so please do not assume.

I get the point, you want epic gear without really having to work for it. That seems to be the overwhelming message here. In the past year the loot system has been changed twice - one, allowing all members in a group to open every chest and two, allowing all pc's regardless of level to open every chest on the server. There have also been 4 epic level shops opened (not including Bjorn's shop in the Palace district) which are stocked with gear that previously would've made brains melt if they were put up for auction. I seriously can't even entertain the thought that even after all that there are still people on this server that are claiming that good gear is even remotely hard to come by.

You are making the good gear argument, you and you alone, perhaps its a perception issue.

The proposal is just a chance at increased loot for parting, it guarantees NOTHING. Chances are you will end up with an additional +1 item or an additional 100 gp pile. after opening x amount of chests and in my suggestion its x = 10. thats a lot of chests. and basically means you have to do two dungeons.

So while you can not entertain any thought of this topic, don't participate.

The suggestion is legit, it has a positive focus on the server and the only counters to it is "you don't work hard enough" its a game! What is threatening you so much?

[Calodan]

What is wrong with removing the junk? Since you find it fine as is what is...

You answered your own question. The loot system is fine as is. No need for change, including the change of making high-end items even easier to get.

Why do you assume anything is stopping us?

Because you and only a few others are on the forums implying that you have little to no chance of ever equipping your toon with epic equipment. If there wasn't something stopping you, then you'd be out earning gold to buy items, trading or even finding the odd item here and there! Do you want epic items just handed out in the nexus or something?

Part of gaming and dungeon diving is the shinies and well when you make us pick up trash like prison inmates.....get the point?

I get the point, you want epic gear without really having to work for it. That seems to be the overwhelming message here. In the past year the loot system has been changed twice - one, allowing all members in a group to open every chest and two, allowing all pc's regardless of level to open every chest on the server. There have also been 4 epic level shops opened (not including Bjorn's shop in the Palace district) which are stocked with gear that previously would've made brains melt if they were put up for auction. I seriously can't even entertain the thought that even after all that there are still people on this server that are claiming that good gear is even remotely hard to come by.

You frustrate me. I have worked for it. I have looted for 4 years. I have RP'd for 2. At this point I am done. The whole RP for your items is the biggest fecking lie you and every DM on this server has ever perpetuated. The trade only theory works like jack and shit since we never get shit to trade from DMs or loot system. It is the same crap the American news media keeps feeding the people if you say a lie enough it becomes true.....

[ValerieJean]

I did like the other posters idea of a Slight Of Hand Check, this seams like a fair and good idea for a class that SHOULD be able to sneak chests. You slight of hand the chest, fail your unstealthed. RP Wise, there is a million stealthy ways to do it, creating distractions, waiting for monsters to pad away, simply tricking the monster. Or even conversation! all those nifty things those RP Builds would do.

It is not too bad of an idea but not sure that can be done in a standard dungeon, per the set areas.
But maybe it can! I haven't delved that far into the TS just yet, but IMO that should be more seen in DM ran events where you can had that kind of fluff where you might not be able to in your generic server dungeons.

[Valefort]

Hey not being in a group is your choice to. Everything you say is just a mirror of what I have said and reasons for it. You can see this now I hope. And sadly its not marginal an average dungeon can have 5 or more additional loot drops from monster spawns, so an increase in party treasure would balance that.

Or are you saying that monsters do not drop much loot? I can tell you monsters drop Mith Full Plate.

They don't drop much loot no, try counting the one who do.

So think about the characters who need someone to party up with and there is no one around to party with?

Have you suggestion to address that?

Yes, change your build or change your play times.

As for RP reasons to not party, well that is their choice, which is often reminded to me later in these posts.

Not saying otherwise ... and why should they get less chances to get loot ?

I think some people would argue the server isnt very varied at all. while I can solo Chaos, it costs me a small fortune to do so and has never made economic sense from the loot gained. But I know how to play and there are others who just are not at my skill and I will not let people argue they should be.

So how is your above "fair" if giving an increase in chance of loot based on party size which might result in an extra item every 10 to 20 chests is NOT FAIR, where in that logic does the above dungeons Such as Vault and Haunted house make sense? How are those area's "Fair".

They are not is the short answer.

Not varied ? Considering the amount of areas we have I'm confused. And yes, these two areas are quite fair. Consider for example turner clerics, they can wipe the floor with the mobs in those areas but set them against frost giants and they'll be mediocre at best.

Well not everyone was level 30 at the time of free rcr. I do not know if you where, but plenty of people where and came out with perfect builds.

Was not my case and I don't really see an issue with people having perfect builds if that's what they want

Once again you bring up "your choice" its really your choice not to party, or your choice to not be able to be social.

Yeah, no .... it's not always your choice. See people who can play only during low player count hours.

As for me, I don't have the problem I just like the idea presented and know from experience a less skilled player is going to have a hell of a time or feel frustrated, its annoying you can not appreciate other peoples issues. I have hell gear, and just need the boots now, then im maxed out!

So maybe its not me being jealous here, but instead people feel like they are being cheated by imaginary fairness elves. There reasons simply being "its not fair because I cant get the loot to, because i cant party" Is jealousy.

Once again why we have dungeons that can be solo'ed is silly.

I'm not sure what to tell you except repeating I ran into those issues you speak of, but those issues can be solved easily, even more easily now. As for dungeons that can be soloed it's not silly but completely mandatory, for the reason repeated above. If everything needed a party there would be considerably less players on the server, which is not desireable. And for the suggestion I simply look at its consequences : more loot, more easily. This is a bad thing in my eyes.

Right.. so which teir 5 chest did you sneak?


Thats what I thought, I will give you your candy back later.

The white dragon ones, have your candy. One chest in frost keep too.

Understand your wrong on monster spot. Your just going to be wrong wrong wrong. Now I am referring to area's that have the higher teir chests. Not Kolbold pits.

Understand you're wrong on spot, wrong wrong wrong. Where do we go now ? My experience visibly differs from yours so why don't you tell where you'll be spotted ? Then I'll show you the spot and listen score those creatures have.

I did like the other posters idea of a Slight Of Hand Check, this seams like a fair and good idea for a class that SHOULD be able to sneak chests. You slight of hand the chest, fail your unstealthed. RP Wise, there is a million stealthy ways to do it, creating distractions, waiting for monsters to pad away, simply tricking the monster. Or even conversation! all those nifty things those RP Builds would do.

Once again no one presented an Idea that proves they shouldn't be.

Further if this is going to be the case then we should call for more rules on the higher teir chests such as they have dc 50 locks and cant be Knocked. After all we want to protect player roles in this game so much, lets protect the lock picks.

Server could indeed probably use a few more magic chests with high lock. And btw .. creating distraction to make monsters move is already quite easy ? Just show yourself and run ? Then HiPS back to the chest ?

While I do like the idea of SoH check it doesn't change the issue much. Rogue builds have lots of skill points and can max SoH easily, it would be reasonable to expect a maxed SoH PC to rarely fail the checks on opening a chest. With a bit of trial and error after such a system is added we would soon be back to no risk and good reward...

[AC81]

@Mallore and Calodan:
I really don't know what else to say. What you two are proposing is injecting even more high end items into an economy that has already recently received major boosts with more on the way. And don't give me the old "oh it'll probably just be more +1 items" crap either. You two both know that removing junk will significantly increase the percentage of other items dropping, including epic ones. Even if it's more lower tier items that start popping up, that means there'll be much more gold in play which further devalues store-bought epic items. I dislike that you Calodan are on this forum implying that I'm lying or that you, Mallore, are sarcastically referencing me as 'master trader'. All because I've had the time and patience to accrue a decent set of items, which by the way I did with no help in the way of loot table upgrades, looting system upgrades or epic shops. That fact that I and many others have been able to do this is testament to the fact that our current system DOES work and that there are now various ways to epically equip your pc (as you keep pointing out Mallore, even you have epic gear).
Finally, and this is where I'll bow out of this conversation, you have yet more options to equip your hard-done-by pc's on the near horizon. In the form of another 2 epic shops and customisable crafting. Mallore, I am making the gear argument because this is what it all comes back to. I'm making that argument because myself and many others are proof that no change is needed - and yet, there have been changes, many of them and big ones at that. And yet we still have topics like this, changes are made because a vocal minority consistently tell everyone how certain things are too hard and so begins the dumbing-down process, the power creep, etc, etc. Well, good luck you two. I hope you get everything you want, just remember to keep asking for more once you get what you want.

[Calodan]

@Mallore and Calodan:
I really don't know what else to say. What you two are proposing is injecting even more high end items into an economy that has already recently received major boosts with more on the way. And don't give me the old "oh it'll probably just be more +1 items" crap either. You two both know that removing junk will significantly increase the percentage of other items dropping, including epic ones. Even if it's more lower tier items that start popping up, that means there'll be much more gold in play which further devalues store-bought epic items. I dislike that you Calodan are on this forum implying that I'm lying or that you, Mallore, are sarcastically referencing me as 'master trader'. All because I've had the time and patience to accrue a decent set of items, which by the way I did with no help in the way of loot table upgrades, looting system upgrades or epic shops. That fact that I and many others have been able to do this is testament to the fact that our current system DOES work and that there are now various ways to epically equip your pc (as you keep pointing out Mallore, even you have epic gear).
Finally, and this is where I'll bow out of this conversation, you have yet more options to equip your hard-done-by pc's on the near horizon. In the form of another 2 epic shops and customisable crafting. Mallore, I am making the gear argument because this is what it all comes back to. I'm making that argument because myself and many others are proof that no change is needed - and yet, there have been changes, many of them and big ones at that. And yet we still have topics like this, changes are made because a vocal minority consistently tell everyone how certain things are too hard and so begins the dumbing-down process, the power creep, etc, etc. Well, good luck you two. I hope you get everything you want, just remember to keep asking for more once you get what you want.

Don't every change AC. Love the vitriol keep spitting it there.........Quite frankly I am tired of it. It is the same bias so many have here and the reason new players just can not break through here. Just does not matter what I do. I have RP'd. The whole trade thing really works...Yeah so works.....Again have to have something to trade so where in the hell do I find something to trade? Pray tell? 4 years. NOT ONE ITEM OF TRADE VALUE........Nor any attitude from shit birds like you to help me make trades either. I have listed what I have multiple times. No one trades. I have given shit away though. Yeah all those RPers showed up for that to get the cheap blind auction loot though. This is why I was gone for year. The vitriol from people in charge here. The bias from people in charge here. It just will never matter at this point for me because of bias opinion no matter how hard I try to RP the way the stigma of this server wants to put in that HARD WORK you speak of. What a fecking joke and a lie. I am out. This shit has rubbed me wrong too much.

[Mallore]

@Mallore and Calodan:
I really don't know what else to say. What you two are proposing is injecting even more high end items into an economy that has already recently received major boosts with more on the way. And don't give me the old "oh it'll probably just be more +1 items" crap either. You two both know that removing junk will significantly increase the percentage of other items dropping, including epic ones. Even if it's more lower tier items that start popping up, that means there'll be much more gold in play which further devalues store-bought epic items. I dislike that you Calodan are on this forum implying that I'm lying or that you, Mallore, are sarcastically referencing me as 'master trader'. All because I've had the time and patience to accrue a decent set of items, which by the way I did with no help in the way of loot table upgrades, looting system upgrades or epic shops. That fact that I and many others have been able to do this is testament to the fact that our current system DOES work and that there are now various ways to epically equip your pc (as you keep pointing out Mallore, even you have epic gear).
Finally, and this is where I'll bow out of this conversation, you have yet more options to equip your hard-done-by pc's on the near horizon. In the form of another 2 epic shops and customisable crafting. Mallore, I am making the gear argument because this is what it all comes back to. I'm making that argument because myself and many others are proof that no change is needed - and yet, there have been changes, many of them and big ones at that. And yet we still have topics like this, changes are made because a vocal minority consistently tell everyone how certain things are too hard and so begins the dumbing-down process, the power creep, etc, etc. Well, good luck you two. I hope you get everything you want, just remember to keep asking for more once you get what you want.

Look you can convince me you think the loot tables are fine, but not with your attitude. You lump me in saying "i want trash out" which I NEVER said, you just assume because I do not agree with you, everything everyone else says is me too. Thats your problem.

All I seek and have ever sought is encouraging group play and I saw a mechanic that didnt hurt anyone and that could help add to that dynamic.

The problem I have with you and a few noise minority group on this forum is they cry poo poo on every idea that doesn't meet your style of play or might threaten your prestige. I would love to see you offer solution instead of condescending comments.

So put up.

Bet you can't.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Back on the subject, the system can benefit from some changes. It won't be in favor of a single person's viewpoint here, even my own, it's intention for the benefit of the general populace first and foremost. Development, QC, and Admin will continue to hash out the pro's and con's where applicable with what we have existing (as it includes conversation of any element that we'd rather not have publicized if it leaks an exploit so that we're spending less time spinning damage control), before any complete re-haul might occur.

Stay tuned, stay patient.

[Razzaband]

I don't see much use in increasing the amount of loot per player given based on group size. Groups already gain an advantage in getting more loot thus increasing variety of loot as a whole between them. You could easily share loot and compare for need of items if necessary.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

A middleground I could see is the reduction of 'trash' loot considered rather than additional loot or that with considerably higher property yields. Two players in a party together would negate a no-prop copper ring that might be rolled, for example, in favor of an item that might have some value to it.

[AC81]

@Mallore and Calodan:
I really don't know what else to say. What you two are proposing is injecting even more high end items into an economy that has already recently received major boosts with more on the way. And don't give me the old "oh it'll probably just be more +1 items" crap either. You two both know that removing junk will significantly increase the percentage of other items dropping, including epic ones. Even if it's more lower tier items that start popping up, that means there'll be much more gold in play which further devalues store-bought epic items. I dislike that you Calodan are on this forum implying that I'm lying or that you, Mallore, are sarcastically referencing me as 'master trader'. All because I've had the time and patience to accrue a decent set of items, which by the way I did with no help in the way of loot table upgrades, looting system upgrades or epic shops. That fact that I and many others have been able to do this is testament to the fact that our current system DOES work and that there are now various ways to epically equip your pc (as you keep pointing out Mallore, even you have epic gear).
Finally, and this is where I'll bow out of this conversation, you have yet more options to equip your hard-done-by pc's on the near horizon. In the form of another 2 epic shops and customisable crafting. Mallore, I am making the gear argument because this is what it all comes back to. I'm making that argument because myself and many others are proof that no change is needed - and yet, there have been changes, many of them and big ones at that. And yet we still have topics like this, changes are made because a vocal minority consistently tell everyone how certain things are too hard and so begins the dumbing-down process, the power creep, etc, etc. Well, good luck you two. I hope you get everything you want, just remember to keep asking for more once you get what you want.

Look you can convince me you think the loot tables are fine, but not with your attitude. You lump me in saying "i want trash out" which I NEVER said, you just assume because I do not agree with you, everything everyone else says is me too. Thats your problem.

All I seek and have ever sought is encouraging group play and I saw a mechanic that didnt hurt anyone and that could help add to that dynamic.

The problem I have with you and a few noise minority group on this forum is they cry poo poo on every idea that doesn't meet your style of play or might threaten your prestige. I would love to see you offer solution instead of condescending comments.

So put up.

Bet you can't.

There have been solutions offered AND implemented. This is what I'm trying to say. And I'm not crying about anything, nor do I feel threatened. You keep talking about solutions ... well, I fail to see any existing problem - all players now have access to awesome gear that is EASY to obtain. So what's the problem?

[AC81]

@Mallore and Calodan:
I really don't know what else to say. What you two are proposing is injecting even more high end items into an economy that has already recently received major boosts with more on the way. And don't give me the old "oh it'll probably just be more +1 items" crap either. You two both know that removing junk will significantly increase the percentage of other items dropping, including epic ones. Even if it's more lower tier items that start popping up, that means there'll be much more gold in play which further devalues store-bought epic items. I dislike that you Calodan are on this forum implying that I'm lying or that you, Mallore, are sarcastically referencing me as 'master trader'. All because I've had the time and patience to accrue a decent set of items, which by the way I did with no help in the way of loot table upgrades, looting system upgrades or epic shops. That fact that I and many others have been able to do this is testament to the fact that our current system DOES work and that there are now various ways to epically equip your pc (as you keep pointing out Mallore, even you have epic gear).
Finally, and this is where I'll bow out of this conversation, you have yet more options to equip your hard-done-by pc's on the near horizon. In the form of another 2 epic shops and customisable crafting. Mallore, I am making the gear argument because this is what it all comes back to. I'm making that argument because myself and many others are proof that no change is needed - and yet, there have been changes, many of them and big ones at that. And yet we still have topics like this, changes are made because a vocal minority consistently tell everyone how certain things are too hard and so begins the dumbing-down process, the power creep, etc, etc. Well, good luck you two. I hope you get everything you want, just remember to keep asking for more once you get what you want.

Don't every change AC. Love the vitriol keep spitting it there.........Quite frankly I am tired of it. It is the same bias so many have here and the reason new players just can not break through here. Just does not matter what I do. I have RP'd. The whole trade thing really works...Yeah so works.....Again have to have something to trade so where in the hell do I find something to trade? Pray tell? 4 years. NOT ONE ITEM OF TRADE VALUE........Nor any attitude from (#2) birds like you to help me make trades either. I have listed what I have multiple times. No one trades. I have given (#2) away though. Yeah all those RPers showed up for that to get the cheap blind auction loot though. This is why I was gone for year. The vitriol from people in charge here. The bias from people in charge here. It just will never matter at this point for me because of bias opinion no matter how hard I try to RP the way the stigma of this server wants to put in that HARD WORK you speak of. What a fecking joke and a lie. I am out. This (#2) has rubbed me wrong too much.

Calodan, what can I say? Everyone starts off the same. We were all new once, at one time we all had nothing. New players now, with persistence, will get good gear, same as everyone, except it's even easier now.
And btw, ALL items have trade value ... maybe the trades you were pushing were not equal or desired. But anyway, that's not exactly a game mechanic problem.

[Kiran]

Hi all.

Not wanting to light the fire or anything, just giving what I am finding the last month or so playing compared to when I started.

In the last 2 months I have found 4 epics. Thats ring +4, boots +4, full plate +4 and a heavy shield +4 with some other stats.

Before the changes I had found 1 epic, at that time I had played about the double I have now, the epic was rather awesome however (Mithril +4 chainmail with 3 dex etc) but still, it was just 1 epic compared to 3.

From what I see there is a good increase for new players like myself to get hold of some awesome items. The hell shop in turn made it damned easy (Pun intended) for new people to get a hold of a great weapon or especially belt/armour (+4 mithril breastplate 110k, +3 str +3 con belt etc also cheap)

But sure, it takes a long long time to aquire this wealth, but aint that a good thing? Why would you want everything at once, what is the point of the game then? You hit level 30 moderately okay if you play often, having RCR'd once already I am nearly 27 now on a cleric who cant solo even if he tried, always has to group. Would I love better loot? Yes, of course I would. Is it needed? Not really... makes it all too easy in the end...

[mrm3ntalist]

The loot system is at its best, compared to what it was before. There are epic shops already implemented - visit the thayan shop for a +4 int helmet - and more are coming in.

Currently with 1 hour of loot tuns one can make 20k without taking into account items you can sell in the in game action. Are 20 hours to get an epic item of your choice a lot?

As far as removing junk items it's not aso merging you cross over from a list. They can be made to appear less but I doubt they will ever be removed

[Side]

With regards to "junk" or "trash" items, why not replace them with items that have a use? I would take an old torch over an empty mug any day.

If we replace the truly useless objects with things that have small or niche uses, but similar costs, I would see this as a huge improvement. They might not be useful to you and your character, but that doesn't mean they are trash items.