water domain power is OP

[dedude]

I actually agree with the OP considering the curent version of evasion. But the thread has just turned into a troll feeding trough.

[Kiran]

Is there a way to see how many people have taken 3 dip into cleric for a water diety just because of it having water in it and thus evasion?

If evasion is being nerfed would this number then fall over a month period? OP then has a point and its based on actual numbers/statistics.

[metaquad4]

Instead of nerfing domains that are solid, why not buff the domains that have fairly subpar powers? Why make the useful things useless, when you can make the useless things useful?

Cold Domain (5 resistance to cold, really?)
Death Domain (negative plane avatar is pretty bad)
Destruction Domain (smite infidel might be ok, if G. smite scaled right)
Fire Domain (see cold domain)
Knowledge Domain (all the domains give extra spells. Don't BS us here, bugsidian!)
Law Domain (iron will is meh. This one could be buffed or left, but the ability is about as useful as Cold/Fire Domain's powers)
Magic Domain (extra spells. Fool me once!)
Protection (Divine Protection is crummy. Unlike the other feats that scale with cleric level, no cleric will ever use this in favor of their other protection spells).
Plant Domain (Fairly subpar. Its speed I guess?)
Travel (See Plant)
War (Subpar for a cleric)

[SBlack]

Instead of nerfing domains that are solid, why not buff the domains that have fairly subpar powers? Why make the useful things useless, when you can make the useless things useful?

I mentioned this since people were making accusations which frankly may not even be all that accurate in the evasion and improved evasion threads that there was a major concern about players taking gods with the water domain who have no intention of playing a priest of the god in question. Given the history of the server and that other domains were changed to diversify I brought this up.

As for your comment, I think some may be concerned about power creep.

A super cool domain power could be added in it's stands since evasion is such a hot topic at the moment. *shrug*

[SBlack]

Is there a way to see how many people have taken 3 dip into cleric for a water diety just because of it having water in it and thus evasion?

If evasion is being nerfed would this number then fall over a month period? OP then has a point and its based on actual numbers/statistics.

I can't imagine it wouldn't really stop many expert builders from finding ways to take 3 levels to dip. Maybe if the domain power was moved to something like level 12 if that is possible that certainly would stop the dips.

[Steve]

Those that choose to dip Cleric for Water Domain, could just as easily take Rogue. However, the general understanding I have is Cleric has the perk of an additional domain, plus granting the toon the use of Divine Scrolls use. Rogue dip grants the perks of Skill points at Level 1, opens up nearly all Skills and if you take Able Learner, you can get full Tumble, and a little sneak damage isn't bad.

So really...if Water Domain was changed to take away Evasion, because Evasion is so OP, then it would be understandable if argued to move Evasion up to level 4 or 5 on Rogue and/or Monk for that matter, since it is really the abuse through "dipping" that supports it all.

Just pointing stuff out for rational behind the whys and hows.

[Sun Wukong]

Why take Cleric over Rogue? Cleric gives Armor and Shield proficiencies too, and since it grants Turn Undead at level one, you can use levels 1, 2, and 3 to pick up Divine Feats. Therefore, a Cleric 4/Favored Soul 26 has access to both Epic Divine Might and Expose Weakness. All you have to do is pick either Auril, Eldath, Istishia, Silvanus, or Umberlee as your deity. (Most of these deities give the favored soul a martial weapon profiency too.)

But as for removing Evasion, I really do not care, but the rationale behind picking levels of cleric instead of rogue is not that cut and dry. Cleric domains - whatever those be - can grant you far more mechanical power than any dip into Rogue might, and the opposite could be true as well. Generally speaking, it really depends on the build whether three levels of cleric or rogue fits the bill better.

[metaquad4]

You could also nab blackguard 3/rogue 3/FvS 24. CL 28 is about as much as you really need to avoid dispels. CL 27 is good enough, even. Tumble 30, as well as detection skills (and UMD, if you want more than 13) are fairly useful.

[aaron22]

a cleric dip in a water domain gives heavy armor proficiency, evasion, and access to divine might, EDM, divine shield, etc.

rogue is good for sneak and tumble, but depending upon your build.. really nothing compares to having evasion (in its current state) along with divine might.

seriously.