Calodan wrote:chad878262 wrote:but 5 more levels of fighter would get 2 fighter bonus feats, which this class gets. As I said in the first post I made, the concern about the 2 bonus feats not including the fighter list is valid, and has already been addressed by Valefort, it's just waiting on the next batch update. As to the rest, I'm more than happy to have a discussion about what is wrong with the class, but your argument makes no sense to me. Fighters get bonus feats every 2 levels, that's their thing, that is it. In the same five levels TK gives you two bonus feats (though at 3 and 4 instead of 2 and 4) as well as increased saving throws, guarding the lord and some RP feats/abilities. It also unlocks one of the best powerbuild skills in the game and gives high will saves. If you want to tank against bosses this class can help you make your saving throws big time. Throw in classes like WoD or Divine Champion or Blackguard (with high CHA) and your saving throws are outstanding.
It is not about the power then if the feats match Fighter. It is about the not getting the prestige of it without taking it now. So basically the problem is not being able to allow a person to be a TK without a prestige class being taken and an application. THey feel this is restricting their ability to get members and members are required to get DM attention. (This is not a false belief) Thusly allowing the Enclave to make a RP impact as they so desire. Now I do not disagree with it but I do not agree either. I mean once it catches on that TK gives you a Noble name. You are automatically to be treated differently than other PCs in RP by certain NPCs because you are now high born. With the current DM crew I seriously doubt this RP boon will be ignored like it may or may not have been in the past. At this point it will be up to the Thayan enclave to RP and make it a place people want to be in. I mean I do! That is why I applied.
Thank you for bringing the discussion back on point. And to a sense you did nail it here.
Really at the heart of it, is if the RW and TK knight classes can't be looked at for their weaknesses in ways that other classes have been looked at, then we should not have to have these restrictions anylonger on builds. That's really what it boils down to.
As a few others have mentioned, Harpers are not required to take the Harper class. Why is this? Because, it's a very weak PRC. Why is it OK for Harpers to RP being Harper agents without this weak class, but Thayan Knights cannot be Thayan Knights without taking this weak class?
I doubt any kind of "minor noble" title will effect how any player treats the Thayans IC. It may happen in the odd (rare) DM events that focus on the guild, in fact I believe you are correct, as the DM team here is very good about this sort of thing (Which is much appreciated.) when they are around in game.
Really what myself and others would like to see is the class become more of a truly "Defensive" class. As it stands, it is weaker than DD and WM by a significant margin. This class does not need to be at those levels, but it would be great to have it retooled to be more mechanically sound when grouped with their RW counterparts, especially since the RW class itself is also pretty underpowered when compared to other caster classes like Archmage or Blood Magus.
Really it comes down to: "Why is it ok for one guild but not the other?" at it's core. And if we are going to have these strict restrictions, at least make it worth our while mechanically.
