Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

The orc was polymorphed into a shape which could be considered KoS in the case of the hostility the animal showed. The other players did not need to give an RP out to attack it.

While polymorphed into a form that is not your own, you are perceived as what you have become. This is considered consent to PvP until your character shifts into a less threatening form or into their natural form.

Narog, on the other hand, was required to give an out to the other players more than an OOC tell 'You were buffing you consented PvP'. Something more like *grows viciously, teeth bared and ears pared, indicating the wild beast may attack unprovoked at any moment* would let the other players choose how they want to react, either taking their out by leaving, charming or some other means of calming the situation, or standing their ground and perhaps fighting the animal.

When the orc was knocked out in Nashkel, the victorious players should have choosen the outcome and not simply 'The orc walks off limping,' which was token lame meta cheese on behalf of Narog.

The victor decides if the victim is subdued or killed, but any actions done to the victim's body is done with the victim's clear consent. Keep any consequences tasteful and PG-13.

Narog's actions ICly are not wholly acceptable in my opinion, neither at the outset or the outcome. The other players involved are blameless.

Tsidkenu wrote:The orc was polymorphed into a shape which could be considered KoS in the case of the hostility the animal showed. The other players did not need to give an RP out to attack it.

While polymorphed into a form that is not your own, you are perceived as what you have become. This is considered consent to PvP until your character shifts into a less threatening form or into their natural form.

Narog, on the other hand, was required to give an out to the other players more than an OOC tell 'You were buffing you consented PvP'. Something more like *grows viciously, teeth bared and ears pared, indicating the wild beast may attack unprovoked at any moment* would let the other players choose how they want to react, either taking their out by leaving, charming or some other means of calming the situation, or standing their ground and perhaps fighting the animal.

When the orc was knocked out in Nashkel, the victorious players should have choosen the outcome and not simply 'The orc walks off limping,' which was token lame meta cheese on behalf of Narog.

The victor decides if the victim is subdued or killed, but any actions done to the victim's body is done with the victim's clear consent. Keep any consequences tasteful and PG-13.

Narog's actions ICly are not wholly acceptable in my opinion, neither at the outset or the outcome. The other players involved are blameless.

And i was just following the rules...See my point?

Face - no you did not follow rules as I've explained in my above posts you did metagame first which was an action that directly lead chasing party to necessity of breaking another rule to keep things realistic.

Meta gaming is also in the rules. Since you're following them so closely - do so with all rules, not just ones that happen to give you unfair advantage. However we're talking about this case for the sake of discussion as none of the involved parties seem to be requesting for punishment. But If you use above interpretation and say that chasing party broke PvP rule AFTER you broke another rule first and their intent was to even things out for realistic reasonable roleplay that followed then you are the only one to blame. See my point ?

Mork wrote:Face - no you did not follow rules as I've explained in my above posts you did metagame first which directly lead to necessity of breaking another rule to keep things realistic.

Meta gaming is also in the rules. Since you're following them so closely - do so with all rules, not just ones that happen to give you unfair advantage. However we're talking about this case for the sake of discussion as none of the involved parties seem to be requesting for punishment. But If you use above interpretation and say that chasing party broke PvP rule AFTER you broke another rule first first and their intent was to even things out for realistic reasonable roleplay that followed then you are the only one to blame. See my point ?

No i do not see your point and please inlighten me where i meta gamed thanks in advance.

Face wrote:

Mork wrote:Ok got to that paragraph.

For the sake of discussion It's not just that party breaking the rules as I'd consider area transitioning when you are chased is use of mechanic to meta game in this case. Using mechanic to assume that:
1: Guards would do nothing seeing magic wolf entering a city.
2: You'd be actually able to escape at all (clicking transition point should not automatically mean it in IC sense. Its the same like logging off.)

So yeah - killing such player after area transition would seem to me pretty normal response.
I'm interested how DMs see such approach.

I agree and if i would have bin the DM around there i would have let the guards join in on a good orc trashing but you know...Rules be rules...

You agreed with me about this couple posts earlier.

Mork wrote:

Face wrote:

Mork wrote:Ok got to that paragraph.

For the sake of discussion It's not just that party breaking the rules as I'd consider area transitioning when you are chased is use of mechanic to meta game in this case. Using mechanic to assume that:
1: Guards would do nothing seeing magic wolf entering a city.
2: You'd be actually able to escape at all (clicking transition point should not automatically mean it in IC sense. Its the same like logging off.)

So yeah - killing such player after area transition would seem to me pretty normal response.
I'm interested how DMs see such approach.

I agree and if i would have bin the DM around there i would have let the guards join in on a good orc trashing but you know...Rules be rules...

You agreed with me about this couple posts earlier.

Indeed but as you can see in the rules after a transit the pvp is over and for the guards sake sure it may be better to turn back to your normal shape before the transit.
But as you seen i did so right at the start of the transit and then i enterd town before i walked on but sure its can be seen as meta gaming good for pointing that out agen.

Point still stand if you rule lawyer you wil get away with every thing you do

Just to word things clearly - my interpretation is just my own. I'm by any means not an authority in this case. Just trying to show you how same rules you seem to believe would protect you from unrealistic roleplay there can be interpreted against you.

Perhaps something worth to consider when "following the rules" and knowing that doing some action is simply silly.

But seriously - area transitioning with DM present and without any rolls that could determine if you escaped seem to me like most classical example of metagaming. It's not just that. Same situation happens if someone would try to suddenly teleport during RP. Cast is so fast that players would not have enough time to react but their characters could potentially interrupt the spell.

That is why when you're transitioning/teleporting there should be a STOP phase for considering things like grapple checks spell saves for paralizying etc.

Mork wrote:Just to word things clearly - my interpretation is just my own. I'm by any means not an authority in this case. Just trying to show you how same rules you seem to believe would protect you from unrealistic roleplay there can be interpreted against you.

Perhaps something worth to consider when "following the rules" and knowing that doing some action is simply silly.

But seriously - area transitioning with DM present and without any rolls that could determine if you escaped seem to me like most classical example of metagaming. Its not just that, same situation happens if someone would try to suddenly teleport. So players did not have enough time to react but their characters could potentially interrupt the spell.

That is why when you're transitioning/teleporting there should be a STOP phase for considering things like grapple checks spell saves for paralizying etc.

That is not in the rules though.

Face - yup it is. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36831

– No Metagaming!

Also this paragraph:

- No Godmodding NPCs!
"God Modding" is when someone’s Character (PC) has the ability to do practically anything without limits or boundaries. And example is when a PC simply cannot be harmed by any means, or ignores NPCs that would otherwise take action against the Character if a DM was overseeing the roleplay situation.

Mork wrote:Face - yup it is. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36831

– No Metagaming!

Also this paragraph:

- No Godmodding NPCs!
"God Modding" is when someone’s Character (PC) has the ability to do practically anything without limits or boundaries. And example is when a PC simply cannot be harmed by any means, or ignores NPCs that would otherwise take action against the Character if a DM was overseeing the roleplay situation.

How is it metagaming? The orc is running for his life, and must make the gamble of getting close to the city, it's either that or his life.

Mork wrote:Face - yup it is. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36831

– No Metagaming!

To bad the DM did nothing about it then right... he came to us after letting us wait for half a hour , Cant blame the guy though as he must have a lot on his plate with no help in a big event like that but when he showed up he spawned some guards then shot me a tell i explaned it all and he let me go and went back to his event.

So... seems even the DM's dont know the rules and who can blame them with a rule book so thick its a mission to remember it all.

From start to end that vid shows how few follow the rules or even know them and even i after years on this server still screw them up from time to time.

RagingPeace wrote:

Mork wrote:Face - yup it is. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36831

– No Metagaming!

Also this paragraph:

- No Godmodding NPCs!
"God Modding" is when someone’s Character (PC) has the ability to do practically anything without limits or boundaries. And example is when a PC simply cannot be harmed by any means, or ignores NPCs that would otherwise take action against the Character if a DM was overseeing the roleplay situation.

How is it metagaming? The orc is running for his life, and must make the gamble of getting close to the city, it's either that or his life.

Nah Mork is right it is a little meta if you look at it from his side all i did was use the rule to escape certain death for my orc.

RagingPeace - It does not matter what was at stake or what was RP reason for it. I am not saying that orc metagamed when he tried to escape. He meta gamed when he assumed that by clicking transition point he automatically succeeded in all saving throws/grapple checks that would normally prevent him from doing so in PnP. He metagamed when he get up after being defeated, and casually walked away.

That is my whole point. Chasing party broke one server rule but their only intent seems to be keeping things realistic AFTER a wolf player clearly broke another important rule.

Take a read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagamin ... ing_games)
Metagaming includes:

Deciding on a character's course of action based on how the game's mechanics will affect the outcome.

Mork wrote:RagingPeace - It does not matter what was at stake or what was RP reason for it. I am not saying that orc metagamed when he tried to escape. He meta gamed when he assumed that by clicking transition point he automatically succeeded in all saving throws/grapple checks that would normally prevent him from doing so in PnP. He metagamed when he get up after being defeated, and casually walked away.

That is my whole point. Chasing party broke one server rule but their only intent seems to be keeping things realistic AFTER a wolf player clearly broke another important rule.

Take a read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagamin ... ing_games)
Metagaming includes:

Deciding on a character's course of action based on how the game's mechanics will affect the outcome.

Per rules my orc did get away and you cant enforce rolls on others and this is nwn2 not PnP.

Mork wrote:RagingPeace - It does not matter what was at stake or what was RP reason for it. I am not saying that orc metagamed when he tried to escape. He meta gamed when he assumed that by clicking transition point he automatically succeeded in all saving throws/grapple checks that would normally prevent him from doing so in PnP. He metagamed when he get up after being defeated, and casually walked away.

That is my whole point. Chasing party broke one server rule but their only intent seems to be keeping things realistic AFTER a wolf player clearly broke another important rule.

Take a read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagamin ... ing_games)
Metagaming includes:

Deciding on a character's course of action based on how the game's mechanics will affect the outcome.

You can't force rolls on someone.

You can't try and stop him with spells, as that is PVP, not to mention you're not allowed to PVP in front of NPC guards.