Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

AC81 wrote:Sounds like the passageway to and from the Surface/UD is now too easy of a trip.

Yep, wand of invis and you can get to and from Soubar/Sshamath at level 1 with relatively limited risk. Sure you could walk over a trap or get unlucky with a spawn that has see invis, but yeah, no level 30 power party needed to get through. The Netherese maze it is not.

Mork wrote:

Avanos wrote: Regarding upperdark.. If drow are KOS on surface, and surfacers are KOS in UD.. Why cant Upperdark be a grey area and render everyone KOS?

I'd like to expand this plea further and also explain to what purpose it should be used.
Upperdark KOS would simply allow players to instantly set hostile and use "hold/paralyze" type of skill on "runners" that still go there but want to avoid any interactions. This simply makes me want to cry when happens during some ongoing RP.
It would most importantly nullify "PvP consent" rule as it is simply silly in general but especially is seen as such when obviously area should be considered dangerous. In the end no one forces anyone to actually go there.

Upperdark should be an area that nullifies the pvp consent rule. It's currently one of the BEST grinding and loot spots on the server. There should be high risk for high reward.

AC81 wrote:Sounds like the passageway to and from the Surface/UD is now too easy of a trip.

+1

It is unfortunate how trivial it is now to move between surface and UD. Also unfortunate that you need pass through these areas which at times, like the Xvart village, feel like OOC areas.

it is OOC if the player chooses to make it OOC. just like anything else on the server. that is an "US" problem. if we take care of that as a player base then the problem can be mediated.

"US"?

us=the players.

there really isnt anything that could be done from the admin side to keep players from acting OOC. they cannot be everywhere all the time. we as players need to monitor ourselves. i fail this at times. so i am critical of myself here as well.

lol, thought you'd meant it was more of an issue for players in a certain country there. np

yea.. well we Americans probably have alot to do with all this too.

from a game design view, the upperdark isn't thing new if you look areas like xvarts those ooc headaches are bound to occur, it was the same with the hill giants, the same with the trolls, the same with serpants, the same with the gnolls.

It is just factor that cannot be eliminated mechicanically, overall i think the upperdark has been a success minus the issues that cannot be fix. I've noticed of alot of uptick in ud/surface rp some good and some bad.

But no matter how bad the ooc stuff is, the upperdark has generated alot of rp so i would consider it a success.

and I'm glad cubicle spent the time to make it happen, and all those involved with it.

just remember the golden rule and play nice,

my 2 cents on it, is the upperdark is wild and not for faint of heart, there are no guards and no safety, it isn't like the fai or the baldurs gate, where there a goodly patrols of nights.

One issue is the change in pvp rules, that wasn't part of the concept of the upperrdark when the discussion of its implementation came about. I would suggust it fall under the rp out - option version of the rules and not the running away - ignore rp.

add a gold cost dark hold 5000 cold to come down. (simple fix) and darkhold would tax the caravan to the dark.

That should keep those away, that just wanna come down for loot and gold but not honur the lore of upperdark

I think Upperdark did a lot to promote RP in Underdark. I agree with 7threalm on that it can be considered a success.

Maybe surface-UD travel is too easy but I'd almost consider it to be a testing period. For a while, only surfacers could get into the Upperdark with ease and UD characters had to take the harder route. This made no sense as IC-ly tunnels shouldn't be one-way. While it may be a bit easy now though, I don't think it should be as difficult as it used to be (the Netherese Maze). That seemed to generate people to sell runes for obscene amount of gold and while travel should be difficult... it shouldn't be that difficult.

Avanos wrote:Too many times I see surfacers running down in UD/Sshamath and treated with the utmost respect.. Masked or not..
I see elves running around in sshamath and nobody bats an eye...

Be the change you want to see?

Most of the time, my drow acts respectful, he's the public face of a bunch of mercenaries and surfacers bring business. No one should really bat much of an eye at surfacers or elves in Sshamath - Sshamath is like a melting pot and lorewise, there are a few elves living there. [Ravial's voice can probably be heard in the distance saying those elves would all be evil because no sane elf would live in a drow city.]

Avanos wrote:You see a drow run on the surface and the entire world comes out to kill you. You see a masked drow on the surface everyone harasses you to take off the mask (because OOC they know you are drow) so they can kill you.

Drow have a very bad reputation on the surface - and rightly so. Surfacer aren't exactly known for raiding parties into UD, sacrificing others to gods, habits of torture etc like drow are.

But if anyone harasses a drow to take off their mask on the surface and it feels OOC, take a screenshot and send it to the DM team. This is something that does happen and shouldn't. Some players get a bit trigger-happy.

Glowfire wrote:
Sshamath is like a melting pot and lorewise, there are a few elves living there. [Ravial's voice can probably be heard in the distance saying those elves would all be evil because no sane elf would live in a drow city.]

Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee~!

Tsidkenu wrote:Upperdark is not a 'grey area'.

PvP Rules wrote:Underdark players on the surface, and surface players within the tunnels of the Underdark, who have been identified are considered to have consented to PvP and may be killed on sight. The exceptions are for the city of Sshamath and the Upperdark, where all involved are still required to follow normal PvP rules.

I find the consent to PvP for Upperdark a rather dumb rule, personally, but in the least it would prevent pking the lowbie-mid endless Titanfist/Kro grinders.

who have been identified

I think this bit should be changed to "who have been identified IC", because there are people thinking OOC identification satisfies the rule.

If they do, they should read everything:

- Underdark players on the surface, and surface players within the tunnels of the Underdark, who have been identified are considered to have consented to PvP and may be killed on sight. The exceptions are for the city of Sshamath and the Upperdark, where all involved are still required to follow normal PvP rules.

• Characters outfitted in a way that completely hides their identifying features require the aggressor to apply normal PvP rules, regardless of which side the disguised character is from. The disguise must be complete and hoods by themselves do not count. Patterns of speech, accents, body language, and other distinctive qualities are discerned only through roleplay over time, and details such as "a funny-sounding name" or the size of the character alone do not count for the purposes of identification.

The Underdark consists of the Upperdark, Middledark, Lowerdark.

The geology of the Upperdark and the Middledark is super hostile. Based on Canon Lore books, the combination of disorienting tunnels, claustrophobia, stale air, extreme silence—drives you mad—, lack of food and potable water, disease, "living" rock and fungi that itself is poisonous, and then add on top of that the denizens of the Upperdark, that just get more wicked as your get deeper....

Yeah, it shouldn't be that difficult to get around in there!!

But seriously, even Canon Lore books describe how Sshmaath has human and Elvens living there, even as free beings, though are "kept in check" by the Ruling forces. So it isn't as if there is no connection between Sshmaath and the Surface.

Essentially it comes down to how Players treat the Upperdark and on-their-way-to-the Middledark, or Sshmaath (as that is our Server's only Drow city).

If Players treat the Upperdark as a metro line, and us it like a daily commute, that is what it will become. If DMs also support this via action or inaction, then as well, it will become solidified in the consciousness of the Server, and it will become a RP-light background to whatever OOC desires are the flavor of the day, of the individual.

However...if Players treated it AS difficult, scary, violent, awful, worthy of the legends of Lore and did not abuse its existence from OOC motivations, and, the DMs also made sure that through RP interactions and Events, the entire Underdark that is in-game is not experienced as weak mechanical challenge but something that is more-on-the-chance-of-failure-than-success...for this is Canon Lore..., then possibly, the stories would become richer.

Personally, I don't know why the Upperdark wasn't made one of the most difficult regions on the Server, both mechanically and RP-wise, as that is how it is in Canon Lore.

The Underdark is harsh, one of the harshest environments on Toril, often compared to conditions of difficulty equal to the harshest deserts on the Surface. If you don't believe me, I suggest you go read your copy of Underdark, or even, preview it here (if you don't own it).

Check out for yourself just how crazy insane it would be to, not only travel there from the Surface, but...get the hellz out of it, alive!!

Then decide if you are going to be a RP'er that upholds that Lore, or not.