Ways to make a PURE Sorcerer more appealing

[CleverUsername123]

I never said I wanted them to stay pure. I'm just saying there should be at least some incentive just like all the other base classes.

But why? What reason is there to add it? There are more important things out there than a perk or two no one will get because staying pure is still a bad idea.

[aaron22]

ok. so how about bonus feats at 10/20/30. that would not be overwhelming and would be easy to apply. i get what your searching for. i really doubt anyone would still take sorc30.

[dedude]

ok. so how about bonus feats at 10/20/30. that would not be overwhelming and would be easy to apply. i get what your searching for. i really doubt anyone would still take sorc30.

0 flavor and a straight up power boost. If the sorc class would ever get approved for anything it would be something along the lines of the bloodlines to give more sorc diversity, and add flavor to the character background.

[aaron22]

ok. so how about bonus feats at 10/20/30. that would not be overwhelming and would be easy to apply. i get what your searching for. i really doubt anyone would still take sorc30.

0 flavor and a straight up power boost. If the sorc class would ever get approved for anything it would be something along the lines of the bloodlines to give more sorc diversity, and add flavor to the character background.

i agree. pretty much wanted to move away from arguing needs and into what the OP wanted. dont know anything about these "bloodline" feats and noticed there is a bunch there but i imagine you are referring to this. that is a bit much to digest while at work. LOL

[chad878262]

Agree 100% with dedude on this. Any change would need to be very strictly determined based on giving some amount of flavor, not power.

[Egg Shen]

Bonus languages to be chosen from draconic, abyssal, infernal... or any others that make sense for a sorcerer?

[aaron22]

these bloodline feats are awesome. and powerful. there is a bunch of RP in there, but i cannot help but see the strength of such a feat. even after just looking at the first 3.

[Flights of Fantasy]

To answer a lot of questions in a single sum up answer: To balance out a base class with the rest.

The results of your ASoC poll would be EXACTLY THE SAME!

You don't know that. You're just assuming that. Just as I don't know if any changes will make a difference. By that logic nothing should ever change because we never really know if it will make a difference. But the one thing I do know is that several have chimed in their thoughts and suggestions and have shown an interest in improving the class. That fact and the surprisingly low number of sorcerers on BG is enough incentive for me to see an opportunity that change will have a positive effect.

You're right about one thing you're hinting at. There is far too much arguing in this topic that was opened for suggestions, which is why I won't be taking part of it anymore even on the defensive.

Back to suggestions, I'm up for anything. The point of this topic was to bring suggestions to the table. I just now checked out that bloodline link and it is very interesting. Plus each bloodline gives a bonus at certain sorcerer levels which is the exact incentive I've been looking for. It's almost like Cleric domains. I'm all for for it if the staff is up for the work.

Edit:

these bloodline feats are awesome. and powerful. there is a bunch of RP in there, but i cannot help but see the strength of such a feat. even after just looking at the first 3.

As I look through more of them, you're right. A lot of those feats will need to be readjusted for balance.

Edit 2: Wow. The efreeti blood line gives you the power to grant wishes at level 20. That definitely can't stay the same.

[aaron22]

still reading the different bloodlines. total craziness. in a really awesome way though. creative. check out this one.

[aaron22]

this from this would likely cause a complaint or two.

[CrimsonMist]

I think the power level of any proposed sorcerous bloodline feats should be more aligned with the fey/fiendish heritage feat lines.

We don't want too many sorcerers because they're supposed to be rare, right? Unless suddenly every second person on the Coast's ancestor was entangled in an amorous liaison with a dragon. (Perhaps the same, very busy dragon. )

[Egg Shen]

To answer a lot of questions in a single sum up answer: To balance out a base class with the rest.

The results of your ASoC poll would be EXACTLY THE SAME!

You don't know that. You're just assuming that.

I'm all for tossing out suggestions to jazz them up a bit, mostly playing up their interesting heritage and therefore boosting roleplay, rather than power (I even suggested adding some language options for them).

But I'm really not just 'assuming' an outcome. There is logic behind it, and the part I'm having trouble with (and several others based on the posts) is that you seem to be ignoring the logical conclusion underlying your basic premise. Which is as follows:

IF you want sorcerers to have 'reasons to stay pure' just like all the other base classes, AND none of the other base classes (druid excepted) stay pure, THEN adjusting sorcerer to fall in line with the other base classes will not make an appreciable difference in terms of how many people stay pure.

Sure, there might now be incentives to do so, but the incentives will not be enough.

I think some of us are also disagreeing with the idea that all of the base classes have some sort of built in incentive to stay pure. Sorcerer has the same incentives as every other base class until level 18, in my opinion. And once you hit 20, they once again have the same incentives. It's really just levels 19 and 20 where they seem lackluster in my mind.

But anyway, as long as there isn't a huge power boost, I'm game for all sorts of neat perks for staying pure. Why not, sounds fun!

[aaron22]

if you took the bloodline abilities and added a 10 to the level attained to get them that would be a good starting point. i must say i am a bit confused on the huge lists of bonus feats given. that is absurd.

edit in italics to clarify.

[metaquad4]

Idea:

Level 1: Familiar.

Level 10: Spell Like Ability (Sorcerer/Wizard Spell List) They can pick from any 0-3 spell and cast it 4/day.

Level 15: Spell Like Ability (Sorcerer/Wizard Spell List) They can pick from any 0-3 spell and cast it 4/day or any 4-6 spell and cast it 3/day.

Level 17: Improved Familiar.

Level 18: Spell Like Ability (Sorcerer/Wizard Spell List) They can pick from any 0-3 spell and cast it 4/day, any 4-6 spell and cast it 3/day, or any 7-9 spell and cast it 2/day.

Level 22: Spell Like Ability (Sorcerer/Wizard Spell List) They can pick from any 0-3 spell and cast it 4/day, any 4-6 spell and cast it 3/day, or any 7-9 spell and cast it 2/day.

Level 25: Spell Like Ability (Sorcerer/Wizard Spell List) They can pick from any 0-3 spell and cast it 4/day, any 4-6 spell and cast it 3/day, or any 7-9 spell and cast it 2/day. (2x)

Level 28: Spell Like Ability (Druid/Spirit Shaman Spell List) They can pick from any 0-3 spell and cast it 4/day or any 4-6 spell and cast it 3/day.
OR
Spell Like Ability (Cleric/Favored Soul Spell List) They can pick from any 0-3 spell and cast it 4/day or any 4-6 spell and cast it 3/day.

Level 30: Spell Like Ability (Druid/Spirit Shaman Spell List) They can pick from any 0-3 spell and cast it 4/day, any 4-6 spell and cast it 3/day, or any 7-9 spell and cast it 2/day. (2x)
OR
Spell Like Ability (Cleric/Favored Soul Spell List) They can pick from any 0-3 spell and cast it 4/day, any 4-6 spell and cast it 3/day, or any 7-9 spell and cast it 2/day. (2x)

Any of the above spell like abilities have the same DC as if they were cast from a spellbook, but they use CHA as their ability modifier.

-----------------------

This rewards sorcerers for going pure, while still giving them something befitting of their motif. As they progress, they will gain spell like abilities, which will enforce the famous "sorcerers can cast many spell on whim". In addition, at levels 28 and 30 (which you can only get by going pure), the sorcerer gains such a pure connection with their magical blood that they can create effects not even practiced wizards can. These spell effects will still be considered "arcane", they will just be powers that the sorcerer has acquired through their extra-planar heritage.

This requires the sorcerer be completely devoted to being a sorcerer though, it seems like a good trade-off for going 30 sorcerer and giving up any PRC goodies or CHA synergy with paladin/blackguard.

In the end, they get a total of 9 different spells (6 arcane, 3 "divine") and are capable of casting each a number of times per day independently of their normal spell "book". But, again. This requires heavy devotion into sorcerer and it requires giving up all the other goodies from PRCs or multiclassing.

[aaron22]

if sorc was given anything close to the bloodline abilities, i would roll one the next day. not sure it would be to 30, but whatever i felt gave me what the concept i was seeking.