Monthly 100% RCR

[izzul]

I would love another shot, if only because I forgot that I RCR'd one of my high epics as a test character for mechanics on the server, and didnt fix or redo it at all before the RCR ran out. He is about as ridiculous as possible right now.

So....sign me up!

same here. one high epics test character sitting idly

[Laughingman]

Anyway, my thinking is that with 100% RCR, Players more freely abandon Characters, instead of investing in Characters. That affects everybody, on the Server...and not in a good way. I also know that DMs hate that (#2), Character abandonment

Monday: RP goes badly
Tuesday: RCRed into Halfling rogue
Wednesday: half orc fighter
Thursday: aasimar FS
Friday: love my new character!
Saturday: so fun!
Sunday: love it!

Monday: RP goes badly, can we get another 100% rcr? Please? I miss my old character....

1/year is more then enough.

[XyrisMourn]

There are some quite compelling reasons given on both sides here, but in reviewing those instances I can't help but feel that those cases which are justifiable would be quite rare and exceptional cases. Certainly not warranting regular capability, but also making an annual opportunity fairly punitive in some cases.

On that basis, and recognising that this might result in even more DM admin (sorry ) I would propose a process to request a 100% RCR subject to review by DM. If justified (for whatever reason) and validated by the DMs via application, then groovy. It's quite possible that this exists today via DM request, but I'd be proposing a more formal 100% RCR request mechanic as some reasons do seem quite reasonable.

Some examples where I could imagine it might be justified:
1) QC/Technical builds for testing... assuming these were done with some QC brief then 100% RCR seems very fair!
2) Builds where the technical capability no longer works or was changed
3) Some RP-based rebuild. I can't think of any specific examples that would be justified, but appreciate there could be some...

Some example reasons where it may not be justified:
a) Because a new item is different to the selected weapon focus feat tree - I'd suggest that is a re-train, and would RP the usual 30-20 RCR as a re-training period
b) Most changes in RP direction - in most cases either stick with the build and just RP you new bits socially (not all a deities faithful need to take cleric levels, for example, nor do all singers need to take bard levels) or change in line with your RP and except the weaknesses, or RCR as usual and treat it as a re-training period to accommodate the new direction...
c) General desire for new tweakiness we all want new shiny things... but the current RCR mechanic seems a reasonable price for making purely mechanical changes assuming no technical issues (as above)

I'm not claiming that these are comprehensive lists, just examples, as I'm not smart enough to come up with a complete list. On the basis that none of us are omniscient, a process for requesting a 100% RCR seems a reasonable one.

Personally, I have RCR'd all my epic level toons a few times, Umbral especially has had about 12 different builds now (all fundamentally similar though) and whilst the Epic grind is just that, it also leads to some great RP adventures.

[chad878262]

1) QC/Technical builds for testing... assuming these were done with some QC brief then 100% RCR seems very fair!

QC has the ability to create QC only characters for testing. We should not be testing things on our own characters (not to mention that without using QC characters we can't set our level and do other things that makes running tests possible.)

2) Builds where the technical capability no longer works or was changed

Already exists with a formal process (i.e. send request to DM staff explaining what is broken and how it impacts your character).

3) Some RP-based rebuild. I can't really think of any specific examples that would be justified, but can imagine that there would be some...

Goes against the spirit of RCR as flipside explained earlier (i.e. it is supposed to be for RETIRED Characters to build a whole new concept, not to change an existing character to a completely different build) and this is the one that I feel causes problems when 100% RCR is opened up. If you want to RP that your level 30 Fighter is now studying magic it MAKES SENSE to start at 20 and have to train more to gain the magic powerz... Meanwhile, it's a bit unfair to all the folks you RP with to have a 100% RCR and ask them to accept, in character that your character that yesterday was a straight melee tank is now some sort of ultra powerful wizard. I don't see why this one doesn't fall in to the same category as your example "b" of unjustified RCRs. If the character has RP that leads them down a different road, even if it is just different feats it should require re-training to get back to where they were.

So really, what is stated in your post is exactly what we have today...

[XyrisMourn]

1) ...

Groovy. Then I'm a happy chap

... now let me just think about how I justify...
*disappears to scribble up a PM*

3) ... RP-based reason...

No...

I agree that I cannot come up with a compelling RP reason, but that isn't to say there can't be a compelling reason. Yes - the reasons you gave weren't compelling... but some might be.

If there is a process to PM the DM and make a request with justification, and that request is justified through RP, then all good.

[DiceyCZ]

QC has the ability to create QC only characters for testing. We should not be testing things on our own characters (not to mention that without using QC characters we can't set our level and do other things that makes running tests possible.

Yeah we should not have reason to test things, however lot of the information in the offical forum topics are incomplete or outdated, I haven't seen the wiki mentioned anywhere well visible so far and also when I do actually search for BGTSCC wiki in google first it pops out the old "wikia" not the more updated "Wiki". I have lost sooo many lvls RCRing with my first character because I didn't have an access to a proper spell list (kinda hard with bard), didn't know that epic spells can't be taken on Stormsinger for example etc. Not to mention that for example the fact that my bard/stormsinger/DC won't have the songs they should have I only learned once reaching 25 (despite forums claiming they both get full song count), oh and the fix that went in effect was a free feat she already had. Which would have been another RCR if I didn't retire her.

[chad878262]

Yeah we should not have reason to test things, however lot of the information in the offical forum topics are incomplete or outdated, I haven't seen the wiki mentioned anywhere well visible so far and also when I do actually search for BGTSCC wiki in google first it pops out the old "wikia" not the more updated "Wiki". I have lost sooo many lvls RCRing with my first character because I didn't have an access to a proper spell list (kinda hard with bard), didn't know that epic spells can't be taken on Stormsinger for example etc.

For something as simple as what you describe I would think you could ask a DM to delevel you rather than doing an RCR. They will generally give you XP where you need 1 to get back to your current level if something is as simple as picking a different spell or a feat description not being wholly accurate. I agree that there is things we as a community still need to document better (though it is far and away better than a year ago!)

If it is something more complex of an issue where the only way to fix is full RCR and it is truly a mechanical issue I would submit to the DM team what your understanding of the feat/ability/whatever was and how it is working differently then your expectation, along with where you got your information. If it is truly a scenario where there is outdated information they may be willing to help. However, I don't necessarily think "I got it from the old wiki" will work, since the wiki has a nice button in the top left of our forum. No need to google it, just right click the "Wiki" and select 'Open in new Tab'.

[DiceyCZ]

However, I don't necessarily think "I got it from the old wiki" will work, since the wiki has a nice button in the top left of our forum. No need to google it, just right click the "Wiki" and select 'Open in new Tab'.

I agree that the new https://wiki.bgtscc.net is well updated lately and a good source of info...however that Wiki button gets you the old http://bgtscc.wikia.com.

[Xanfyrst]

Anyway, my thinking is that with 100% RCR, Players more freely abandon Characters, instead of investing in Characters. That affects everybody, on the Server...and not in a good way. I also know that DMs hate that (#2), Character abandonment

Monday: RP goes badly
Tuesday: RCRed into Halfling rogue
Wednesday: half orc fighter
Thursday: aasimar FS
Friday: love my new character!
Saturday: so fun!
Sunday: love it!

Monday: RP goes badly, can we get another 100% rcr? Please? I miss my old character....

1/year is more then enough.

You do realise you're being rather insulting with that post?

[Cenerae]

However, I don't necessarily think "I got it from the old wiki" will work, since the wiki has a nice button in the top left of our forum. No need to google it, just right click the "Wiki" and select 'Open in new Tab'.

I agree that the new https://wiki.bgtscc.net is well updated lately and a good source of info...however that Wiki button gets you the old http://bgtscc.wikia.com.

Not for me it doesn't. It sends me to the new one.

Googling it was how I ended up using the old one for a while until someone pointed out there's a button on the forum. <_<

[NegInfinity]

Monday: RP goes badly
Tuesday: RCRed into Halfling rogue
Wednesday: half orc fighter
Thursday: aasimar FS
Friday: love my new character!
Saturday: so fun!
Sunday: love it!

Monday: RP goes badly, can we get another 100% rcr? Please? I miss my old character....

Har, har, har.

It takes a few days to make a chracter, RCR or not. And simple releveling process takes usually a hour. This is not a realistic scenario.

1/year is more then enough.

If you think you're an elf, sure. Just for you one RCR per year.

....

You do realise you're being rather insulting with that post?

+1

[NegInfinity]

Ah... negative, given the only time they normally grant 100% RCR periods is when they alter feats/etc that will directly impact a number of builds. The RCR tool is primarily there as a tweaker, not a do-over.

The intended use of RCR tool it to start a new character after retiring the old one.

And not to tweak your build to perfection.

It is intended as a do-over and not as a tweaker.

[Fury_US]

Ah... negative, given the only time they normally grant 100% RCR periods is when they alter feats/etc that will directly impact a number of builds. The RCR tool is primarily there as a tweaker, not a do-over.

The intended use of RCR tool it to start a new character after retiring the old one.

And not to tweak your build to perfection.

It is intended as a do-over and not as a tweaker.

Originally, for when you retired a character, rather than "just wanting to try out a new concept". That said, the recently instituted 100% RCR periods have been when changes were made to feats or abilities that were significant enough to warrant enough people the chance to fix their builds. So the staff have utilized it for character retirement, and fixing things.

And leaving the matter of sensitivity of Laughingman's post aside? The scenario that was put down there is something I've seen happen, on multiple occassions. Literally, every time there has been a 100% RCR period. Which is why I see a 100% RCR period as something that woudl be nice to offer the players, but only for a very brief time, and once a year is more than enough.

[Laughingman]

Wasn't intended to be insulting. That was actually my own experience with it. I rcred 3 times in a week then regretted it. I would love 100% rcr but I know it will end badly for me.

[Xanfyrst]

Nah, 4 times a year is good. Long enough between them so you don't take it for granted, happens often enough so you don't have to feel despair if something's wrong with your build, be it change of feats or miscalculation of build progression.

If not for the 100% RCR last year, I'd not bother coming back to the server. I do not enjoy the grind on BG and I never have. I'm not the only BG-oldtimer who feels that way.

Besides, you can always add additional rules to make sure character-integrity is ensured. BG loves to have rules for everything after all.