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Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:13 pm
by Khazrak
A couple ideas:
1.) Bard/Fighter/Barbarian/Bear Warrior. Hear me out - Bear Warriors get to use unarmed damage feats for their damage. So, you could RP using your lute as a weapon while in bear form. Bear hits people with lute. Yeah. Not sure what the split would be, but something like Fighter 4 / Barb 3 / Bear Warrior 10 / Bard 13? You'd get 5th level bard spellcasting. It's silly and dumb, but rage, free extend rage II, bear form, improved unarmed spec, a bard song...
However, ONLY do this if you can play bard songs while in bear form. I get the feeling you may not be able to.
2.) Stormsinger. It's actually, to me, a very logical path: instead of hitting people with the lute, you keep the lute out because you're constantly using it to bring down THE THUNDER! (Could take some lines from AC DC's Thunderstruck, or Metallica's Ride the Lightning). Then you get to RP having a metal-sounding lute that has such hard riffs that lightning strikes from the sky.
3.) Hold your breath... Monk/Cleric/Sacred Fist/Harper Priest. Harper Priests actually DO get Perform as a class skill. So, you could run around in typical monk form, but while doing mad riffs on your lute. Doodly-doo. Still get to use unarmed combat with it, too.
4.) Evil bard route might do the trick - Bard/Fighter/Blackguard, maxing out Charisma for solid Divine Might and Divine Shield buffs. No need for EDM, as you've demonstrated in another thread; just take your shield, a set of good gloves, some Smite Goodie-goodies, and pound someone in the face with Weapon Specialization / Unarmed Mastery. Carrying a lute means no shield, but them's the sacrifices we make.
5.) On that note, why not Bard 24/Cleric 3/FotF3, or Bard 23/BG 3/FotF 3? CL 28 isn't terrible, and you'd have divine might/shield shenanigans to pull. Cleric 3, depending on deity choice, could net you some VERY nice bonus feats.
6.) Finally, there seriously isn't anything wrong with just going Bard 27 / FotF 3, or Bard 23 / Fighter 4 / FotF 3. In my humble opinion, at least, that is the case.
Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:22 pm
by aaron22
so i might be making an incorrect assumption that the player wanted to be unarmed and unarmored from the FotF dip.
that said, my imaginary fighter build has 8 less armor from clothes instead of MFP. not good. i do not consider shield as cant have a shield and lute at same time.
Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:25 pm
by Khazrak
so i might be making an incorrect assumption that the player wanted to be unarmed and unarmored from the FotF dip.
Sun Wukong wanted to use a lute as a weapon in RP. This came from a thread about bards not having instruments out, and Sun Wukong was all "I'm gonna make a bard that uses a lute as a weapon," and here we are.
Figured I'd make some suggestions as to what you could do besides FotF.
Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:14 pm
by Sun Wukong
And it seems that now... I have gotten my hands on some +3 EB gloves with +1d4 Acid, and that +1d6 Sneak Attack dice...
I kind of want to have that 'non-monk' pugilist...

Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:21 pm
by aaron22
armor or no armor? still want the FotF and/or bard?
Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:22 pm
by aaron22
or ill buy those gloves off ya?
Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:25 pm
by chad878262
Sun Wukong wrote:And it seems that now... I have gotten my hands on some +3 EB gloves with +1d4 Acid, and that +1d6 Sneak Attack dice...
B3/F14/FotF3/SD10 - Shadow Dancer will help a great deal with your defense, still gets BAB26 plus HiPS... Doesn't have the extra damage from EIPA or Crits, but your gloves kinda take care of that, or at least partially. This would be best as a Tiefling with DEX/INT/CON being the primary attributes. DEX 19 for SD qualification, 22 with +3 item, will not where armor. CON should be high enough in order to get your AC where it needs to be and INT would be the one you want to max for damage. Note that you could also go for Duelist instead of SD which would help a little with the defense, but all the duellist offense is based on piercing so loses out there.
B4/F14/FotF3/A9 - sneak attack bonus dice stacks with Assassin death attack dice. This one should do plenty of damage except when fighting crit immune enemies. Still only getting 2 sneak attacks out of stealth (3 when hasted), but the fighter levels make damage ok-ish for the other attacks.
Nice find, those gloves.
Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:49 pm
by Sun Wukong
I put this together:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?285036
I would have used Phantom would it have Perform as a class skill. (Would be better due to extra wisdom AC, no Expose Weakness though.)
But yeah, the above build should get:
1d3 (Fist)
+ 3 (EB)
+ 1d4 (Fist of the Forest)
+ 4 (Strength)
+ 1d4 (Acid)
+ 6 (Epic Weapon Specialization)
+ 2 (Unarmed Melee Mastery)
+ 4 (Combat Strike)
= 26~ damage a hit...
AC:
10 (Base)
+ 7 (Constitutution)
+ 4 (Dexterity with +4 from somewhere.)
+ 3 (That silly Drum, shield AC, maybe?)
+ 4 (Robes, Armor AC)
+ 3 (Tumble)
+ 3 (Natural Armor Amulet)
+ 3 (Deflection item.)
= 37...
I don't think the 500+ HP is going to help that much... It would not so bad on a Bard that has concealment... So, still leaning towards the Bard 27/Fist of the Forest.
chad878262 wrote:B3/F14/FotF3/SD10...
Yeah, Epic Dodge could be fun.
And yeah, I suppose I could sell those gloves too. Since I am a troll, I could put them into the consignment store with a random loot name and a very low price...

Or maybe ask for some gold or trades for once...

Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:20 pm
by Khazrak
I say do either Bard/FotF, Bard 23/Fighter4/FotF3, or do some sort of Monk/Cleric/Sacred Fist/Harper Priest myself. The first two are both straightforward concepts that will work just fine with that lute (and with your gloves they can sneak attack with that lute I suppose!), and the Sacred Fist / Harper Priest can still use perform just fine while filling the same role as the usual Sacred Fist.
And yeah, I suppose I could sell those gloves too. Since I am a troll, I could put them into the consignment store with a random loot name and a very low price...

Or maybe ask for some gold or trades for once...

If you do that, you should wait a good, long time before putting it up, that way people don't start checking the store a lot right now. Wait until people aren't expecting this / have forgotten this post, THEN do it.
That said, that's an amazing set of gloves and you could very well trade with that, yeah. If you were talking about a shortbow, 1-handed weapon, or sling, I'd probably try shaking the computer screen really hard hoping it would fall out right now.
Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:44 pm
by aaron22
ok so we can get perform out of Dread Pirate or harper rogue if we wanna go that route. perhaps a Ph/(DP or HR)/FotF3/SD3 build could suite your wants. SA/Hips/EW/Ethereal.
both the harper and DP carry some RP considerations with them.
could also go WD as it gives evasion and perform....
IDK this concept is hard as I just would not want to play this at all... i'd just make a B10/SS10/PM10 and blast everything with lightning bolts while my vamp did his thing. can hold a lute and do that at the same time.

Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:01 pm
by Khazrak
There's something pleasing about swinging a lute around and smacking the *(do-me)* out of people with it, you have to admit.
"You wanna know the power of music?" quipped the bard, glaring at the contemptuous orc. "HERE is the power of music!" He slammed the lute into the orc's jaw with a loud 'snap.'
This is the same sort of bard that would, during a DM event, explain how to use a bardic knock spell to get into the cultists' secret hideout by... politely knocking on the door, then punching the dude that opens it unconscious when he answers.
Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:42 pm
by aaron22
Khazrak wrote:"You wanna know the power of music?" quipped the bard, glaring at the contemptuous orc. "HERE is the power of music!" He slammed the lute into the orc's jaw with a loud 'snap.'
A look of disbelief pours over the bard's face as he take a few steps back. The blow did a few things and none of it the way the bard imagined before striking the huge orc. His lute is nothing more now then some loose wires binding together a couple shards of wood. The orc turns his head back around. The wound split his lip, but it is nothing compared to the wounds he endured in his rough childhood. The orc looks pleased as he slowly swings an oversized maul inches above the ground. The long handle of the maul held at half mast to keep from dragging on the ground. "I prefer drums." the orc speaks through clinched tusks. "Staggering backward Timos, known as the fist-fighting bard in many circles, reaches in his pack for a small bongo drum that he knew would be in there. But Timos was only feinting looking in his pack and swings hard into the face again of the orc. "Crack" sounds out in the alleyway. The bard connected easily and solidly against the unexpected orc brute and his head snaps back in a spray of blood. But the orc never lost a step of ground and slowly turns his head back to Timos. The orc take his left hand and wipes the blood from his nose and looks at the at his crimson fingers. A long dark tongue licks clean the blood from his hands in a single wipe. Again Timos takes a few steps back this time his fists are up and ready for a counter punch, but the orc merely looks back at the bard. In a swift motion the orc brings the hammer from the six o'clock position to the twelve o'clock position counter clockwise behind him with his lone right hand. At the apex of the swing the orc lets the momentum of the hammer's arc slide his hand to the perfect distance. At this point the left hand meets the right and the orc brings the hammer down upon the top of the head of the bard. Without the aid of a shield or weapon to defect the hammer's impact, the bard can only put up his hands to try and stop it. It is a futile attempt as all that happens is his arms get drawn into the vacuum of space that is being created by the hammer's force. Timos's head squashes like a pumpkin. His neck snaps and cracks. His ribs crumble and fold under the force of the blow and his legs buckle. The orc slides his weapon off of the thing that once was Timos. Now it looks like two legs with a mush of the other parts scrambled together on top. The orc hefts the big hammer back up to his muscular should and walks away and shrugs, "Close enough to drums."
Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:42 pm
by aaron22
aaron22 wrote:Khazrak wrote:"You wanna know the power of music?" quipped the bard, glaring at the contemptuous orc. "HERE is the power of music!" He slammed the lute into the orc's jaw with a loud 'snap.'
A look of disbelief pours over the bard's face as he take a few steps back. The blow did a few things and none of it the way the bard imagined before striking the huge orc. His lute is nothing more now then some loose wires binding together a couple shards of wood. The orc turns his head back around. The wound split his lip, but it is nothing compared to the wounds he endured in his rough childhood. The orc looks pleased as he slowly swings an oversized maul inches above the ground. The long handle of the maul held at half mast to keep from dragging on the ground. "I prefer drums." the orc speaks through clinched tusks. "Staggering backward Timos, known as the fist-fighting bard in many circles, reaches in his pack for a small bongo drum that he knew would be in there. But Timos was only feinting looking in his pack and swings hard into the face again of the orc. "Crack" sounds out in the alleyway. The bard connected easily and solidly against the unexpected orc brute and his head snaps back in a spray of blood. But the orc never lost a step of ground and slowly turns his head back to Timos. The orc take his left hand and wipes the blood from his nose and looks at the at his crimson fingers. A long dark tongue licks clean the blood from his hands in a single wipe. Again Timos takes a few steps back this time his fists are up and ready for a counter punch, but the orc merely looks back at the bard. In a swift motion the orc brings the hammer from the six o'clock position to the twelve o'clock position counter clockwise behind him with his lone right hand. At the apex of the swing the orc lets the momentum of the hammer's arc slide his hand to the perfect distance. At this point the left hand meets the right and the orc brings the hammer down upon the top of the head of the bard. Without the aid of a shield or weapon to defect the hammer's impact, the bard can only put up his hands to try and stop it. It is a futile attempt as all that happens is his arms get drawn into the vacuum of space that is being created by the hammer's force. Timos's head squashes like a pumpkin. His neck snaps and cracks. His ribs crumble and fold under the force of the blow and his legs buckle. The orc slides his weapon off of the thing that once was Timos. Now it looks like two legs with a mush of the other parts scrambled together on top. The orc hefts the big hammer back up to his muscular should and walks away and shrugs, "Close enough to drums."
TL/DR: low damage + low AC = Myrkul says, "Your name isn't in my codex..."
Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:35 pm
by Khazrak
It's not a TL;DR so much as "learn to split things into paragraphs, silly."
Straight bard isn't actually a terrible setup. Melee bards are not a terrible setup, either. The one downside here is the bard isn't using a shield if he's carrying a lute...
...in which case he's still able to use Shield potions if he really wishes to.
Damage should be fine. Assuming Bard 27 FotF 3, you've still got a +5 inspire courage (+6 with spell), CL 30 with lots of spells, Sonic Weapon (assuming it's able to be cast on gloves), +unarmed damage from FotF... If the bard needs to tank he can always activate his bard song and put on a shield, but the option of whacking people with his lute is there (and indeed the whole point).
It could be especially fun to use those gloves Sun Wukong found. +3 EB, +1d4 acid, +1d6 sneak attack? Throw on the Hymn of Heroism and Legionnaire's March every now and then to bolster defenses and damage even more. Should work just fine.
Is it a powerbuild? No. But it would work, I think. Again, I'd go Gold Dwarf for all the amazing defenses instead of human if the Bard route was taken.
And seriously, if you can't imagine a bard laying into a horde of goblins with a lute and sending several flying with each swing while playing his rock solo, you have no soul.
(...yeah, I don't care if it doesn't fit the build well, I imagine this bard having Great Cleave.)
Re: Bard - Fist of the Forest
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:45 pm
by Sun Wukong
Khazrak wrote:(...yeah, I don't care if it doesn't fit the build well, I imagine this bard having Great Cleave.)
Great Cleave is pointless on this server without Frenzied Berserker, the mobs have too high HP for it to be worthy of the feat investment.