Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Aspect of Sorrow wrote:

Should weapons wear?

Should we have fun ?!

Valefort wrote:Should we have fun ?!

Who told you to have fun?

*CRACKS WHIP*

GET BACK TO WORK!

Valefort wrote:Should we have fun ?!

We're are playing on an roleplaying, server are we not? So of course we should have fun.
But at the same time, this is a roleplaying game, where more level of immersion is much needed. What I'm suggesting is something that emphasizes on immersion, and at the same time also gets around some issues, and as you know, introducing new things rarily doesn't create some new issues that needs to be dealt with somehow.

I've heard it being said about the server that this is an MMO - which isn't entirely correct, it would be more correct to say an MMORPG, this means that the emphasis should be on the roleplaying and immersion elements, rather than the elements that make it seem more like a video game....and as far as I understand, you're actually attempting a cross between PnP and an MMORPG. As an example, World of Warcraft has spell ingredients implemented for some spells, and in the PnP version of the material components needed spells is much higher than in the game. Even MMORPG's generally has implemented that gear take damage and will need to be repaired and maintained, so why should BG:TSCC be any different? But like I said, you're attempting have a mix between PnP and an MMORPG, why would you steer away from something that detracts from immersion?

Either way, its a reasonable cost to playing a wizard, because you know what, choices should matter. It may be that wizards already costs a lot to play due to having to pay alot for new spells, but that can be alleviated through changing the base cost of spells, it could be alleviated with gaining more spells as you level up and making the more spells specific to school specialization. There are a good number of ways to deal with wizard being costly to play, and if casting spell costs was implemented, it would also affect the divine casters. It would change the meta quite alot as, people wouldn't just go say, hey lets go slay some monsters, because then it could actually be rather costly to use spells, and such, so the venture would have to be worth it. It might make more mundane classes more viable, which basically would also be more lore appropropriate.

F*** no.

Why do people want to turn this into a simulator? It's the most popular server because it doesn't bugger people with too many stupid restrictions and unnecessary features that do nothing other than annoy and/or make their gaming less enjoyable.

If you want it more hardcore, go to a hardcore server. Or if you want to RP expenses, I'll gladly RP your local magic ingredient pusher and take your gold. There, now both you and I are happy.

There is nothing fun about imposing "penalties" on people. Besides most spells have costs of under a GP per cast and can be made "free" with a simple feat. Implimenting something as silly as this is pointless.

I would argue however that resurection should have a cost on it. Just like teleport.

Incarnate wrote: I've heard it being said about the server that this is an MMO - which isn't entirely correct, it would be more correct to say an MMORPG

No, no guys.

This most certainly isn't any of that, where the first "M" stands for "Massively".

There is nothing massive about this game's population. Nothing.

As for spells, I keep hearing this "closer to PnP" implementation, but then nobody wants to talk about the true power classes like wizards, clerics and druids actually wield in PnP, whereas here almost every class is more or less on the same power level (and this goes both ways when talking about early levels, where being a Wizard isn't that much of an issue in comparison with being a Fighter, while in PnP a lvl 1 wizard can't really adventure safely on his own).

So, to sum up: people like me will keep playing their wizards, dominate PvE regardless of costs and profit. Conversely, anyone less experienced trying to "roll a wizard" will be unable to play it and lose a ton of money trying to (I assume it would be a ton, with costs adjusted to the in-game gains...because if costs are like PnP, the first two chests will cover the run's expenses...)

Given what I just said about the "M" in the acronym, this doesn't sound like the best idea ever.

@Xanfyrst: rrrofl

No.

Go play Ultima Online. It's an MMORPG. You have to have loads of regs to cast spells, when you run out, no magic. It takes days and days and grinding to gain skill. When you die you leave a corpse with everything on it. You have to, as a spirit, travel to a healer to be resurrected. Weapons need to be repaired. You need to eat/drink otherwise you never regain spell points. There is no rest mechanic. You can own a house and stash all your loot there. You can sneak into other peoples houses. You can loot fallen houses.

This is not Ultima Online:Tales of Brittania.

I don't see why everyone is constantly trying to impose things that are already implemented in other, free to play, available games. Go play those if that's the experience that you want.

When you get PK'd for the 15th time by a naked mage riding on a horse that one-shots you to loot your corpse, I'll see you server side when you come back here.

Invoker wrote:

Incarnate wrote: I've heard it being said about the server that this is an MMO - which isn't entirely correct, it would be more correct to say an MMORPG

No, no guys.

This most certainly isn't any of that, where the first "M" stands for "Massively".

There is nothing massive about this game's population. Nothing.

As for spells, I keep hearing this "closer to PnP" implementation, but then nobody wants to talk about the true power classes like wizards, clerics and druids actually wield in PnP, whereas here almost every class is more or less on the same power level (and this goes both ways when talking about early levels, where being a Wizard isn't that much of an issue in comparison with being a Fighter, while in PnP a lvl 1 wizard can't really adventure safely on his own).

So, to sum up: people like me will keep playing their wizards, dominate PvE regardless of costs and profit. Conversely, anyone less experienced trying to "roll a wizard" will be unable to play it and lose a ton of money trying to (I assume it would be a ton, with costs adjusted to the in-game gains...because if costs are like PnP, the first two chests will cover the run's expenses...)

Given what I just said about the "M" in the acronym, this doesn't sound like the best idea ever.

@Xanfyrst: rrrofl

Actually, I would say that depends on your definition of massive - how many players constitute massive in your terms, because 32/64/96 could be considered a massive amount of players. Where is cutoff, when does it become an MMO? Basically you're talking about an amount of players in a single instance on the server that can be on at any given time on the server - which could be 96 players, but what about the other players that aren't on? Sure they're not on the server, but their character still exists on the server. A satisfactory definition of "massive" cannot be exclusively based on the number of players in a single instance. There is also the community where roleplay takes place as well.

That really does depend A LOT on how they implement it and how they tweak other things to alleviate issues it would create. Also, already established high level spellcasters wouldn't be all that much affected by it other than future spell casts would now actually cost them and would just be a drain on their already accumulated wealth. Furthermore, this is certainly something that would've had less issues if implemented from the beginning.

the argument goes both ways and can be made silly with absurd comparisons.

you dont wanna pay regents for spells? that means you want to be a superhero with "powers" they come from no where and you can just do them. so if you want to play a superhero go play marvel online or dc universe.

silly? lets stop being silly.

aaron22 wrote:the argument goes both ways and can be made silly with absurd comparisons.

you dont wanna pay regents for spells? that means you want to be a superhero with "powers" they come from no where and you can just do them. so if you want to play a superhero go play marvel online or dc universe.

silly? lets stop being silly.

Excellent point! I agree, because that is essentially how it is when you're not using reagents aKa spell components and materials - magic coming from no where!

Edit: this violated the rules, apparently, so.

This is a terrible idea with no actual reason that's worth hearing.

Is that better?

I would be all for spells costing gold, or having to use reagents. As long as a sword has durability, and eventually breaks. And a bow has to be restrung every so often. And armor that gets punched with an arrow has to be discarded or patched, and eventually becomes useless.

Playing a wizard is already the most expensive class. If you disagree, try RCRing one. My last RCR cost me roughly 150k to replace my spells. That alone would buy me enough reagents to last for years, if not a lifetime.

How many melee classes sit down and RP repairing their gear (with the associated gold cost)? If we can overlook this, then I think we can assume that reagent gathering is done offscreen.

Again, though, I would be all for having components or a gold cost. As long as we penalize every other class in the same way.

Sapper Woody wrote:Playing a wizard is already the most expensive class. If you disagree, try RCRing one. My last RCR cost me roughly 150k to replace my spells. That alone would buy me enough reagents to last for years, if not a lifetime.

This should not be considered for anything as no one is required to RCR and technically "Retiring" a character in favor of a new one should not relate to that character necessarily having the same reserves/resources. While I agree it is painful to do, it is not required and thus isn't really a cost associated to the class itself. One could say that a Wizard does not have to purchase +4 Natural Armor Amulet, +4 Armor, +4 shield, +4 Weapon(s) and really doens't even need +4 dodge boots or deflection item. Their spells protect them, so that is over a million gold right there at level 30.

I do not say this to argue 'for' magic having a gold cost, as I said earlier in the thread, I am against it. However, saying Wizards have it so much rougher than anyone else is not entirely accurate. They have the MOST difficult time with RCR'ing, but otherwise they are quite adept at being very profitable, since they are not reliant on any expensive equipment. Scrolls are cheaper than epic equipment, after all.


In the end, nothing stops one from RP'ing maintaining weapons and armor (or other equipment) just as no one stops RP with regard to spell components. In fact, it would be REALLY cool if, instead of just firing off a spell every 6 seconds a Wizard were to throw a few lines in about lore appropriate components they use when casting some of their spells. The key here is the RP of these items, not associating cost to every single spell component, whetstone, leather oil, etc...