Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Shall we keep the topic about blaster builds, and leave the reserve-feat discussion to PMs (or a separate topic, if you feel the need to publicly discuss it .... but preferably PMs)?

Incarnate wrote: It is undervalueing it, because it allows one to continue where normally one wouldn't be able to because of being exhausted.

This is simply not the case. You can cast a cloud spell and obtain a far higher damage output without giving up a feat. Dealing 27 dmg in a round isn't "allowing you to continue", it's a waste of time. You're better off waiting 5 minutes to rest, if you are that bad at spell management.

Also, you're assuming that one is only using this feat to defeat the encounter, which obviously one shouldn't, unless of course this what one is left with. Also, reserve feats are intended to make you more powerful, but they intended to make one able to extend further, which is exactly what they do.

It's a misconception. They do not do that, the damage is insufficient to go on when that moment comes (IF it comes. Experienced players never reach that point).

The damage is high compared to what you could do with a weapon, even if its a magic one. Also, being able to deal 35 damage on average every round compared is a lot better than closer to nothing, which around what a spellcaster can do if the spellcaster is out of spells, the alternative is auto attacks with a weapon which will be even lower.

This is completely wrong. Good that you posted it, because it's exactly what you are not understanding as of yet, but you will instantly, the moment you play some epic content. (I played a dozen of epic mages to lvl 30 and far beyond, of different races, classes, stats and spell schools, so I know that fairly well by now...I simply came to the conclusion with experience.)

35 dmg on average (assuming you always hit, which you do not) is far worse than what anybody competent with a weapon would do. This is per round, not per attack. A low damage combatant deals 25 dmg per attack on average, with 6 attacks minimum per round. A Reserve feat deals 9d4 or 9d6 in one single RTA, which means some 25-35 dmg avg TOTAL, if you hit. Useless dmg, waste of your time, waste of a feat, and you even need a 9th circle spell blocked to do so.

35 dmg is not "a lot better than nothing". It's exactly as good, because both won't kill anything. The alternative isn't a weapon, it's to learn to play the character and improve one's spell management. A weapon is another terrible use of your time . Good players do not run out of spells.

Basically you seem to be comparing the reserve feats from the perspective of relative power when it should be from the perspective of what they're intended for - namely sustainable damage and extending one's power. Reserve feats will never be able to match the relative power of spells of the triggering spell level, and the spell will never be able to match the amount of damage the reserve feats can output in total between rests.

No, you misunderstand me. I probably wasn't as clear as I should have, apologies. Let me try again.

I compare reserve feats with having another feat of my choice.

While reserve feats are useless in the epic levels because you'd need >20 casts of them on average to kill ONE epic enemy while they all bash on your mage, another feat is most certainly not.

@Zanniej: sorry, I thought it'd be relevant to discuss them, since they are pure blasting feats, in this context. I won't post anymore on the matter, if it's deemed uninteresting.

Zanniej wrote:Shall we keep the topic about blaster builds, and leave the reserve-feat discussion to PMs (or a separate topic, if you feel the need to publicly discuss it .... but preferably PMs)?

I think that a "blaster" does or does not include Reserve Feats. As in "pew pew" blasting.

Invoker wrote:

chad878262 wrote:Armored Sorc dipping Paladin, Blackguard or Cleric can get very high AC...

10 + 11 (MFP) + 6 (IMA) + 4 (Deez) + 5 (ShadowShield) + 8 (Dodge/Deflection)= 44 + 12 (Divine Shield) = 56.

Note that 44 AC with mirrors and 20% concealment from Deez is generally enough to make you immune to physical attacks anyway.

True, but Armored Sorcerer is a very mediocre blaster.

Going that route, I'd suggest abandoning anything allowing saves, because the DCs will be even worse than usual.

Polar Ray is mandatory on that kind of character, and improper use of IGMS almost inevitable for lack of better alternatives.

Well, you are thinking in terms of an experienced arcanist. Armored Blaster is very easy and there is more than Polar Ray or IGMS out there. Orbs do up to 18d6 and the saving throw will not lesson damage, Lesser orbs do half the damage, but are only level 1 spells (plus there is Grease!). Ice Darts at level 2 is 18d4+9 damage, level 3 has Vampiric Touch, level 4 the aforementioned orbs and Enervation, and Evards. Level 5 has Fireburst, Cloudkill, and Vitriolic Sphere which has 21d4 damage even on successful save since only subsequent rounds are subject to saves for half/no damage. Level 6 has Acid Fog, Greater Shout (successful save halves damage, but enemy is still deafened), Bigby6 and of course IGMS. Level 7 has Avasculate and Bigby 7. Level 8 you have Incendiary Cloud and Polar Ray and, finally level 9 includes Bigby 9, and Energy Drain. This is in addition to a couple buff spells and breaches/dispels/mords. There are enough 'no save' or 'still beneficial after a successful save' spells that an armored blaster can be effective.

I see it as an ok 'learning' type of build because such players don't necessarily have to worry about thinking 5 rounds ahead and proper positioning... If they get mobbed they just activate Divine Shield and have mid 50's AC to go along with mirrors and concealment, making the mobs unable to do anything to them as they drop cloud spells or firebursts.

TL;DR, as always, Invoker is 100% accurate, but in this case I would argue that, much like a HiPS mage, it is not the 'most' powerful type of a given build, but it may be the most powerful for a novice caster player because it is easy.

And as to Reserve Feats, Invoker and I are not undervaluing it... Intelligent use of spells and better management of slots is far more effective than using reserve feats. This is by no means saying they have no value. While leveling, especially for a novice player they are helpful, but with regard to epics and in game abilities, they are not really needed or useful. You have plenty of spell slots if you understand how to utilize them, even as a blaster. That reserve feat, in the end is better spent elsewhere. Especially if you are using feats to get ICE or Divine Shield... Every feat you take that is not meta-magic or Spell Focus or even extra spell slots is taking away from the ultimate power you wield.

from what i can see regarding playing an archanist and reserve feats, i think everyone is correct. when i played my first wizzy i took a reserve feat for RP reasons and used it often enough to be useful. this was because i was new to playing a wizzy and did not do all the things that make a caster good. i picked wrong spells, had wrong gear, used spells incorrectly. all the wrong moves. so the reserve feat ended up being used, because it was easy to use. and i learned that it is easy and not that good as i got levels.

now i dont pick reserve feats anymore, but i am still not any good. just better. invoker has many years of experience playing wiz/sorc. he and few others. you could make a build based on reserve feats and he could prolly play it and make it look like the most powerful caster in the realms. where he could totally build a full toon for me that would be perfection and i would play it so bad he would want me to uninstall the game.

edit: he would take his wiz and cast a spell in game that would uninstall it from my computer. the spell would then cause d4 damage on me anytime and everytime i tried to reinstall. no save. duration: forever.

the game is pretty forgiving and you will be better the next wiz build you make. go for RP. play and learn. what invoker knows and how he would do things is valuable, but also irrelevant at the same time. he knows so much that avg joe doesn't, he is playing is a completely different game.

i would compare that to having bill, the ford engineer, tell you how to change your ford's oil. it's not that complicated for us. joe neighbor is more helpful. but joe is useless if you need to diag something more complicated. that is when bill gets the call.

this is not disrespect toward invoker or anyone at or near his caliber. it is quite the opposite. it is enormous respect.

This is obviously anecdotal, but it may give add to the perspective:

My main character, Laitae, used to have invisible needle. It was a valuable thing when solo leveling, as it gave me more endurance and was decent up to about level 23 in combination with a summon or a dominated creature.

But past level 23, I almost stopped using it. It was always more useful to just stay invisible and let summon/dominatee do the work unless overwhelmed. If I kept using invisible needle, I'd go through all my mirror image preparations in just a few mobs, as they just kept ignoring my companion.

Laitae also had (and still has) maxed out hide/MS (but no HiPS), though she doesn't wear any real sneak gear. That lets her sneak past at least 90% of the server's mobs, however, so I saved some invisibility spells on that. However, without HiPS, once I had attacked, the mob so often switched to start hitting my character again and I had no other way of stopping that than to cast invisibility.

At level 30 I stopped using it entirely.

So eventually I RCRed out of invisible needle. When I build wizards or sorcerers now, there are so many other feats I would rather choose.

Well... The only reason why reserve feats are worth much less here is due to a few things:

1/ Not being represented correctly.
2/ The meta and balance is off
- being able to rest every 5 minutes and regain all spells is what makes it much less worth - which really in my opinion needs to be balanced to be more appropriate to lore.

The PnP version also increases caster level respectively for the category of the spells its for.

It also functions as a supernatural at will ability, this means:
- not subject to spell resistance.
- not subject to counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic.
- do not provoke attacks of opportunity
- it never require Concentration checks.
- has an effective caster level equal to the character's Hit Dice.
- saving throw (if any) against a supernatural ability is: 10 + ½ the character’s HD + the character’s ability modifier.

So there are also other things to take into consideration under normal circumstances, but the thing that affects it value and usuability is the fact the regaining spells is so easy and fast.

Now, it has been forever... The mobs on the server have changed... But my Spirit Shaman actually kept on using Acidic Splatter alongside with Storm of Vengeance all the way to level 30...

But then again, I was using the druidic spell list and not the arcane one. Death Ward, Foundation of Stone/Storm Avatar , Freedom of Movement, Premonition, Tortoise Shell, Halo of Sand, Regenerate, Spell Resistance, etc... etc. I could just turn on that Improved Combat Expertise while wearing that Full Plate and Tower Shield, and there really was not all that much that could harm my character. I mean my character used to finish Ice Giants with Inferno because he could just run around and remain untouched.

Note though, the Ice Giants today on other characters feel a bit meaner than what they were in the past. Well... They kind of just spawn in awkwardly large numbers before the entance of their fortress. I mean, whenever I try to go there, there are 4 mobs waiting, I move a bit and 4 more get spawned, and another step and there are yet another 4, and even if I stand still, there is another 4 spawned, and another 4 a while later.


But yeah, I would actually side in favour of reserve feats. Especially now that I can have that swarm of elementals, and a bigger meaner elemental, underneath that Storm of Vengeance, and I can just keep spamming Acidic Splatter... to chip in that extra damage, while posting things on the forums.

Incarnate wrote:- being able to rest every 5 minutes and regain all spells is what makes it much less worth - which really in my opinion needs to be balanced to be more appropriate to lore.

Rest Timer is 45 seconds per level, so 22 1/2 minutes at level 30. 5 minute rest timer is at about level 6 or 7... That said, I am all for making the rest timer 2 minutes per level, 1 hour at level 30. IMO reserve feats still won't be worth it, but Metamagic will be much more important even for DC mages to better help organize your spell book for what you are planning to do.

I also agree that the balance is off on this server, but chances are slim that a major overhaul is forthcoming unless we have a serious influx of area builder volunteers that can work with the team to rebalance the entire server...

Mobs received increased HP while spells received increased damage, mobs also received arbitrary DR while AC is too low, favoring high damage, low BAB builds. I am hoping we can get some work done to address this and have area's that use enemies with different strengths and weaknesses to encourage folks to party with a group of varied skillsets and have an enjoyable team adventure. However, as it stands the ~35 damage per round against mobs that have at least 300 HP (at the low end, caster mobs) is just not enough... well built melee characters are doing a minimum of 250 damage per round and many are doing double that or more. There are ways to counter (or slow down) this damage without giving mobs 600 HP and 20/- DR. Such as giving them higher AC without the DR and maybe less HP... Favoring higher attack bonus a bit, even if damage is lower per hit. Just for an example... less HP mobs would also make reserve feats a little more useful...though IMO they are never going to be the best feat for a strong build, nor should they be. Unlimited damage is the Warlocks forte, let them have it.

As for blaster build, there is actually nothing wrong with some kind of: Wizard or Sorcerer 6/Fighter 4/Frost Mage 10/Arcane Scholar 10. Fighter gives you Fullplate, Towershield, and Improved Combat Expertise.

In a way I would prefer the Wizard 6/Fighter 4/Frost Mage 10/Arcane Scholar 10 because Frost Mage and Fighter levels allow you to save the Wizard Bonus feat later to the epics, which lets you get Automatic Quicken Spell III, and cast two Lesser Orbs, Empowered Lesser Orbs, or Maximised Lesser Orbs per round while having reasonably high AC. The build does lean a bit towards PvP, mind you.


And... A build Such as Wizard 16/Divine Champion 4/Arcane Scholar 10 in stock NWN2 is able to get Automatic Quicken Spell IV in stock NWN2 by leaving the 10th wizard level and the 4th Divine Champion level to the last four levels of the build. (When you get enough spellcraft ranks to unlock Automatic Quicken Spell, and no, you cannot get more than IV with an unmodified game.) In BGTSCC, I guess the build would be something like a Wizard 12/Divine Champion 4/Arcane Scholar 10/Archmage 4. (BAB of 23 with Augment Form and Shapechange.)

Also, the reserve feats would be a slightly better investment for arcanists if 'Rainbow' spells would start to fuel them. No reason why they shouldn't, but you could fuel several reserve feats with just one Greater Rainbow Blast mememorized.

But these days... The new summons and Augment Form kind of carry their own weight.