Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

REWARDS are an even greater myth, than that one can find epic items here.

One thing I will add to this ...

In my 9 years here I was predominantly concerned with gathering items, the higher the quality the better. Then epic stores came along and demand for those items dropped significantly and made other unique items at the time almost worthless.
I've now gotten to the point where I trade very little. I don't actively seek out trades and only engage in trade talk if someone approaches me asking about certain items. The reason being, it's taken me much, much longer than the average person to accept that these items just aren't needed to succeed in the pve environment, in an event no amount of epic items will allow you to succeed if a DM doesn't want you to, and PC's can be equipped to a higher standard than needed from the epic stores.

I think the original OP question has been answered in this thread. Maybe a new question ... why do people feel they need ultra epic items on this server?

AC81 wrote:I think the original OP question has been answered in this thread. Maybe a new question ... why do people feel they need ultra epic items on this server?

Need isn't really the issue. I'd say its a split between wanting something you can't have (desire fulfillment), and then having something someone else cannot have (because its unique).

AC81 wrote:One thing I will add to this ...

In my 9 years here I was predominantly concerned with gathering items, the higher the quality the better. Then epic stores came along and demand for those items dropped significantly and made other unique items at the time almost worthless.
I've now gotten to the point where I trade very little. I don't actively seek out trades and only engage in trade talk if someone approaches me asking about certain items. The reason being, it's taken me much, much longer than the average person to accept that these items just aren't needed to succeed in the pve environment, in an event no amount of epic items will allow you to succeed if a DM doesn't want you to, and PC's can be equipped to a higher standard than needed from the epic stores.

I think the original OP question has been answered in this thread. Maybe a new question ... why do people feel they need ultra epic items on this server?

A) Not everyone plays an awesome build that can be good with trash items, and need or will be greatly improved by epic items to even their builds out.

B) Optimizing a build with items is fun for some people. Fun! Wow, why would we need that, right?

C) It evens the playing field between those who have hours to grind out epic items and those who do not. I've played on this server relatively actively since about 2010-2011 and before the epic stores, I've had two epic items in my inventory. Yes, I did loot runs as it fit my schedule (couldn't do them every day on account of work/school/RP plans, I did 1 loot run every couple days or so). I am exceedingly thankful for these opportunities presenting in the epic stores to acquire loot that was formerly hoarded by lucky/wealthy players as "trade only". That trade only economy was one of the absolute worst I've ever seen and I'm glad its, for the most part, gone.

C.5) It also makes it so you don't have to spend as much time grinding if you want those epic items. Less time spent grinding is more time spent RPing.

D) Sneakers, in order to pull off their primary trick (which has more than a few RP applications) kinda require epic gear, as their trick is fairly easily thwarted without it. This evens the playfield field as if a spotter does want to compete with a sneaker now, they must devote slots to spot gear as a sneaker does with sneak gear.

As a side-note, need is a bit of a strong word. You don't "need" anything in this game. You don't even "need" to play this game at all (damn you Steve for thieving from my brain).

Even with the epic item shops, fear not. That sentimental loot-hunt is still there, as there are still slots for most builds that can be filled with better items from the random loot generator than the epic shops. As well as a few unique items (Like a particular mage's belt and epic scythe) as well.

Also, gold is useful. Every time I want to equip a new character, I hunt loot to sell for gold, with the eventual goal of spending a million or so in the epic stores. Not to mention UMD and teleport costs. Its hardly worthless, I suppose it would be if you have everything. But if you already have everything, its going to stay worthless*. You've effectively "beat" the loot-hunting part of this game once you have everything.
*You still need to pay for wands, potions, and scrolls. But, when you have millions of gold lying around, these are very small prices.

@metaquad:
True. I think you may have misunderstood my post. I support the epic stores. I think they are a good thing for our server and for the servers economy. But you can outfit a pc very, very well from these shops. Better than what is needed. The build and your OOC knowledge of the server is what will help you succeed or fail in most instances. True, if you have a non-optimised, RP-based build, then these items become more crucial. But I guess the catch there is, should an RP build, or a purposefully weaker build be able to solo content with ease?
As for sneakers - they now no longer need to compromise between AC and stealth. A fully outfitted rogue is only being spotted by dedicated spotter characters, no PvE mobs will spot a fully geared stealth pc.
Over the course of time the RIG items will drop, for every other situation there is gold and the epic stores.

AC81 wrote:

Sun Wukong wrote:

Steve wrote:Its not rocket science. All a Player needs is 1 unique epic item, and they can become an AC81 (who everyone equally despises for his Dragon Hoard of awesome gear! Love ya AC!!! *hugs*

Wrong... Most of the stuff on his list comes from the in game consignment store. Found by me, put there with a price tag of 20-50k. I mean, when I put something 'decent' in the in game consingment store... I tends to end up in his list.

Please explain. Exactly which items are from the IG consignment store? Also, hi Steve, how's that epic viper going?

Gloves (Perform+3, Bard Bonus Spells: 2/4/5/6)
Longsword (Vampiric Regeneration+3)
Greatsword (EB+2, Bludgeoning+1d4, Vampiric Regeneration+3)
Cloak (Deflection AC+3, Universal Saves+3)
Cloak (AC+2, Darkvision, Immunity: Darkness, Hide+10)
Helm (Constitution+3, Strength+2)

When I cross references your current list, I have found items with the above stats in game, and once shoved into the in game consingment store, few days later items with same stats have popped up on your list.

Now it could all be a coincidence, random number generatars are rarely all that random.

Sun Wukong wrote:Gloves (Perform+3, Bard Bonus Spells: 2/4/5/6)
Longsword (Vampiric Regeneration+3)
Greatsword (EB+2, Bludgeoning+1d4, Vampiric Regeneration+3)
Cloak (Deflection AC+3, Universal Saves+3)
Cloak (AC+2, Darkvision, Immunity: Darkness, Hide+10)
Helm (Constitution+3, Strength+2)

When I cross references your current list, I have found items with the above stats in game, and once shoved into the in game consingment store, few days later items with same stats have popped up on your list.

Now it could all be a coincidence, random number generatars are rarely all that random.

None of those are items that get the light of day in the consignment store. The gloves are DM enhanced from a loot table item. The longsword and helm are RIG items. The cloak +3 is off the loot table as is the greatsword. The other cloak with +10 hide is grandfathered and I'd say anything with +3 regen is exceptionally rare. I've been on this server a long time and except for the cloak +3 I've never seen anything of this quality in the IG auction. You need to check your facts and start looking closer at item properties. None of these items were gained off the IG auction despite your 'cross referencing'.

Gloves (Perform+3, Bard Bonus Spells: 2/4/5/6), Oh, you are right, I got Bard bracers with 2,3,4,5 bonus spells. Didn't have a bard at the time, so I sold them off.

Longsword (Vampiric Regeneration+3), I actually found this weapon twice, but since I already had +3 vampiric weapon with an actual enchantment bonus to it, I sold both.

Greatsword (EB+2, Bludgeoning+1d4, Vampiric Regeneration+3), for me this was a RIG item. But, at the time, well, didn't have a character that could make use of it, so I sold it off.

AC81 wrote:Cloak (Deflection AC+3, Universal Saves+3)

, found this rather recently, but I was actually playing a cleric of all things and did not need deflection AC or Universal saves, so I sold it off.

AC81 wrote:Cloak (AC+2, Darkvision, Immunity: Darkness, Hide+10)

, didn't have a sneak, so I sold it off. Darkvision feat works these days, by the way. Troll cave cabinet. I kept the +3 Dwarven War Axe with +1d4 acid damage.

AC81 wrote:Helm (Constitution+3, Strength+2)

, yeah found from rig and I had no character that could benefit from it, so I sold it off. Been finding bunch of variants of it too, which I have put into the in game consignment store.

AC81 wrote:None of those are items that get the light of day in the consignment store.

Yeah, they sell quickly with the gold prices I place them on. As I said, I do dislike herding cats these days.

AC81 wrote:None of these items were gained off the IG auction despite your 'cross referencing'.

I do take notes based on the stuff I find. How else could I offer any build making advice?

The cloak with +10 hide doesn't drop, it isn't a RIG item. A cloak of the bat drops but it is vastly inferior.
I've had all these items in my possession a long, long time. I'm sure vamp +3 weapons drop but even you must admit they are rare and valuable.
To paint my items as nothing more than consignment gear is a bit much. Especially when two items you use to make your example are grandfathered and another two are +3 regen ones. Stretching the truth to make your point about my gear doesn't enhance the argument of gold being worthless (or whatever your point was)

Edit: Just to clear things up and respond accordingly to your original dig at me.

Wrong... Most of the stuff on his list comes from the in game consignment store. Found by me, put there with a price tag of 20-50k. I mean, when I put something 'decent' in the in game consingment store... I tends to end up in his list.

You then put up these items when talking about MOST of my gear:

Gloves (Perform+3, Bard Bonus Spells: 2/4/5/6)
Longsword (Vampiric Regeneration+3)
Greatsword (EB+2, Bludgeoning+1d4, Vampiric Regeneration+3)
Cloak (Deflection AC+3, Universal Saves+3)
Cloak (AC+2, Darkvision, Immunity: Darkness, Hide+10)
Helm (Constitution+3, Strength+2)

I've put a strike through the items that are definitely not of a consignment store standard. The other two are debateable, definitely powerful. IMO, too powerful to be sold for gold, better off kept and traded.

What I dislike is the fact that you attack me by saying MOST of my gear is poached from the consignment store. Here is MOST of my epic gear, the rest being on one of my 2 pc's. NONE of this gear was bought from the consignment store.

Ring (Intelligence+4, Hide/Move Silently+4, Spot/Listen+2)
Boots (Dodge AC+4, HP+10, Intimidate+4)
Ring (Regeneration+1, Hide/Move Silently/Spot/Listen/Search/Survival+3)
Battleaxe (EB+4, Bludgeoning+2, Strength+3)
Helm (Hide/Move Silently+4)
Sickle (EB+4, Fire+1d4, Vampiric Regeneration+2)
Amulet (AC+4, Hide/Move Silently+4)
Belt (Dexterity+4)
Sling (EB+4, Electrical+1, Feat: Point Blank Shot, Hide/Move Silently+3)
Helm (Constitution+3, Strength+2)
Cloak (Deflection AC+3, Universal Saves+3)
Clothes (AC+4, Constitution+3, Open Lock+3, Bonus spell: Cleric level 2)
Sling (EB+4, Strength+3, Mighty+5, Unlimited Basic Ammo)
Belt (Deflection AC+3, Will Saves+4, Cure Critical Wounds [15] 1/day)
Boots (Dodge AC+4, Intelligence+3, Concentration/Spellcraft+3)
Handaxe (EB+4, Sonic+1d6, Bonus feat: Two-weapon fighting)
Chainmail (AC+4, ASF -20%)
Breastplate (Wyvernhide, AC+4, Poison saves+3)
Leather Armour (AC+2, ASF -5%, Feat: Weapon Finesse)
Boots (Dodge AC+4, Dexterity+2)
Warhammer (EB+4, Strength+3, Fire+1d4, Heal+4)
Warhammer (EB+4, Piercing+1, Vampiric Regeneration+1, Mass Crits 1d10)
Scimitar (EB+4, Piercing+1, Acid+1d4, Vampiric Regeneration+1)
Sling (EB+4, Cold+1d4, Feat: Point Blank Shot)
Battleaxe (EB+4, Negative+1, Piercing+1, Vampiric Regeneration+2, Cold Iron)
Scythe (EB+4, Piercing+2, Vampiric Regeneration+3, On-Hit Stun DC18, 25% for 1 round)
Dwarven Waraxe (EB+4, Piercing+1, Constitution+3, Death/Disease saves+2)
Spear (EB+4, Magic vs. Evil +1d4)
Mithral Fullplate of Strength (AC max: 8, Max dex bonus:3, Strength+3)
Scimitar (EB+2, Fire+1d10)
Battleaxe (EB+4, Bludgeoning+2, Strength+3)
Longsword (Vampiric Regeneration+3)
Ring (Charisma+3, Feat: Expert Tactician, Mass Cure Moderate Wounds 3/day)
Greatsword (EB+2, Bludgeoning+1d4, Vampiric Regeneration+3)
Warhammer (EB+4, Keen, Fear Saves+2, +1d6 damage vs. Halflings)
Gloves (Charisma+4, Listen+4, HP+4)
Gloves (Dexterity+4, Hide/Move Silently+3)
Cloak (AC+2, Darkvision, Immunity: Darkness, Hide+10)
Cloak (Strength+3, Dexterity+2, Wisdom+2, Immunity: Prismatic Spray)
Halberd (EB+4, Deflection AC+4, Slashing+2)
Shortsword (EB+4, Cold+2, Hide/Move Silently/Spot+4)
Mithral Chainshirt (AC+4, Dexterity+3, Feat: Dash, HP+5, Parry/Tumble+3)
Ring (Intelligence+4, Hide/Move Silently/Spot+3)
Kama (EB+4, Deflection AC+4, Piercing+1d4)
Helm (Deflection AC+1, Perform+4, Bard Bonus Spells: 3/4/5)
Gloves (Perform+3, Bard Bonus Spells: 2/4/5/6)
Cloak (Constitution+4)
Amulet (Natural AC+4, Will Saves+1, Bard Bonus Spell: 6, Electrical Resistance 5%)

Does that look like consignment store gear to you? Really? Are you honestly saying that MOST of my stuff was once yours and that I've simply bought it off the IG auction?!?!? I've been in this game a loooong time, and I have never once seen an item of this quality in the store.

So, I'm fine with epic stores, looting, trading, whatever. But don't try to lead people to believe that my gear was once yours or anything even close. You're painting yourself as charitable while at the same time painting me as someone who exploits your generosity. I'm calling BS on that.

Back on the OP, gold is worthless to long time vets with gear like the above. But it has become more meaningful to others who can use it to fit out pc's with epic store gear.v Multiple pc's means more gold needed. I for one would support gold for RCR's, although I don't know that that would ever be approved.

AC81 wrote:The cloak with +10 hide doesn't drop, it isn't a RIG item.

Then it seems I have been granted with undeserved DM attention in the years long past.

AC81 wrote:I've had all these items in my possession a long, long time. I'm sure vamp +3 weapons drop but even you must admit they are rare and valuable.

And other people have been playing on and off this server for a long, long time. Longswords and greatswords require martial weapon proficiency, something that my characters do not always have. Not to mention that different builds have different item requirements. Vampiric regeneration can be a wonderful thing as an extra on a weapon, but there are also builds that have to have other properties first. For example I had that vampiric greatsword on a dwarven battlerager of mine, and I never actually got around to using it much because back then fire damage on weapons was something of far greater benefit. Trolls and the frost giant fire weakness. I actually ended up just throwing all his equipment in a loose trail from FAI campfire towards the river Chiontar.

Not to mention that today you can get a +4 EB +2 Vampiric Regeneration longsword from the epic merchant. Nine Lives Stealer is its name, and it requires evil alignment. Thus the +3 Vampiric Regeration longsword you have as trade only item is largely of interest to players whose characters make use of Greater Magic Weapon or similar enough spell. It is literally 20 HP healed by 10 hits, against 30 HP healed by 10 hits. The difference is somewhat negligible.

Now, today, I suppose that one of current barbarians character could make some real good use of the greatsword... Since we have that Northlander Hewing feat in game... But he already has another +4 EB +3 Vampiric Regeneration weapon to use with impunity. Thus the extra damage fealt does not exactly offset the -2 drop in AB.

AC81 wrote:Edit: Just to clear things up and respond accordingly to your original dig at me.

Go ahead. Now, you are not the only merchant with familiar sounding items listed as trade only. Just the one Steve brought up.

AC81 wrote:You then put up these items when talking about MOST of my gear:

Items do appear and vanish on your Auction House forum thread. You got two lists, and both have their contents changed time to time. You do some player to player trading, even if you do not do it as actively as before. By your own words.

AC81 wrote:I've put a strike through the items that are definitely not of a consignment store standard. The other two are debateable, definitely powerful. IMO, too powerful to be sold for gold, better off kept and traded.

That may be your opinion on those items. But as I have been saying; I do not quite like herding cats. Not to mention that I do not like having mule characters, so I do not. I do not trust the in game storage system, so I do not. Thus my inventory space for storing items is far more limited, and I am literally better off putting those 'epic trade only items' into the in game consignment store where someone else can get them and find some use out of them. Even if said use is not beyond the role of a decoration on a trade only list for years and years to come.

AC81 wrote:What I dislike is the fact that you attack me by saying MOST of my gear is poached from the consignment store. Here is MOST of my epic gear, the rest being on one of my 2 pc's. NONE of this gear was bought from the consignment store.

What you dislike is the fact that we have different approaches when it comes to playing on this game, and this difference between us two may make you seem as the greedier one, which might have some perceived negative connotations to it. This is why you consider it an attack. I do not really care either way.

The simple thing is that I put up 'epic trade only items' into the in game consignment store. They sell rather quickly - and after few days or weeks items with similar stats tend to pop up and vanish on the 'big' merchant trading lists. A curious thing indeed.

Additionally, it is not a crime against the lords to buy an item on a bargain, and get way more out of it by seeing the effort that I myself refused to put in. Yet if we use the term you used, 'poaching' happens. What of it? If I put something into the consingment store at 3999, , and someone buys it and puts it back at 25000 - Good For Them. If someone buys one of my 10-100k items and gets to do an 'Epic Item Only Trade' - Good For Them.

AC81 wrote:Does that look like consignment store gear to you? Really? Are you honestly saying that MOST of my stuff was once yours and that I've simply bought it off the IG auction?!?!? I've been in this game a loooong time, and I have never once seen an item of this quality in the store.

Well, for the large part, with my current list of characters... Yeah, it kind of does look like stuff I would put into the in game consingment store without a second's notice. Well as for your stuff being mine, all I am saying is that items I put up into the in game consignment tend to have rather similar stats on your list. I would probably need to ask Zanniej for your first post edit history, if it exists, for a more expansive list.

AC81 wrote:So, I'm fine with epic stores, looting, trading, whatever. But don't try to lead people to believe that my gear was once yours or anything even close. You're painting yourself as charitable while at the same time painting me as someone who exploits your generosity. I'm calling BS on that.

I am also fine with epic stores, looting, trading, and whatever. Glad we agree. And no, I am not charitable, I as greedy as they come actually. We just have different priorities, it is all. Also, I did bother with herding cats in the past... There were merchants 'prior' to 'Karond Goldhands' ... And all that.

AC81 wrote:Back on the OP, gold is worthless to long time vets with gear like the above. But it has become more meaningful to others who can use it to fit out pc's with epic store gear.v Multiple pc's means more gold needed. I for one would support gold for RCR's, although I don't know that that would ever be approved.

And as I have stated... The value of gold depends on the vet. Not everyone finds the same stuff fun to do. It is fine.

And... Well, if it has not been clear enough. Keep checking the in game consingment store. Who knows what you will find from there...

Talking around corners, as usual. Unapologetic, as usual, fine. You can do as you wish with your items, obviously. What you missed is my point that I'm somehow ripping people off because you choose to drop epic gear on the IG auction - which was definitely what you implied. I'd like to say it was unintentional, but you strike me as someone who is smart enough to avoid such a mistake.

The other thing:

Wrong... Most of the stuff on his list comes from the in game consignment store. Found by me, put there with a price tag of 20-50k.

Then this:

Yeah, it kind of does look like stuff I would put into the in game consingment store without a second's notice. Well as for your stuff being mine, all I am saying is that items I put up into the in game consignment tend to have rather similar stats on your list.

So what is it? They're either exactly the same or they're different. Because in your first quote you'd have people believe that all (sorry, most of) my items were ripped from you. In the second quote my items now 'kind of look like' the type of item you might sell.

And that was my biggest problem with your post. You painted me in a negative light for no reason whatsoever. Why? And don't say because Steve mentioned me, that didn't require you to go any further. This is why I rarely post or engage with people on the forum these days. It's just people talking in circles, being passive aggressive or outright trying to flame others.

AC81 wrote:@metaquad:
True. I think you may have misunderstood my post. I support the epic stores. I think they are a good thing for our server and for the servers economy. But you can outfit a pc very, very well from these shops. Better than what is needed. The build and your OOC knowledge of the server is what will help you succeed or fail in most instances. True, if you have a non-optimised, RP-based build, then these items become more crucial. But I guess the catch there is, should an RP build, or a purposefully weaker build be able to solo content with ease?
As for sneakers - they now no longer need to compromise between AC and stealth. A fully outfitted rogue is only being spotted by dedicated spotter characters, no PvE mobs will spot a fully geared stealth pc.
Over the course of time the RIG items will drop, for every other situation there is gold and the epic stores.

Fliqside: Should qeoqle be qermitted to ignore Rq while levelling, as is needed to stick to a sqecific build?

Note: For some reason my key between o and å is broken. I am substiuing it with its mirror image, q.

On toqic:

Re: housing/travel/whatnot as goldsinks: Keeq in mind the availability of gold for commoners. Adjust costs accordingly. If a commoner who should be able to afford something cannot qer their lore-based income, then it shouldn't cost as much. IC sense > mechanics.

Actual solution: EVE online/Runescaqe style/whatever style aqqroach to material goods. Droq Xq qenalties for dying, reqlace with losing ITEMS. Yes, you read it right: items, not gold.

If of all material goods, gold is the only thing that survives qVE loss, then gold will be valuable as a means to trade. And qeoqle will always need new items since old ones will detoriate.

Bonus: Make items have a durability limiting their use.

AC81 wrote:So what is it?

Banter.

This was:

Sun Wukong wrote:

Steve wrote:Its not rocket science. All a Player needs is 1 unique epic item, and they can become an AC81 (who everyone equally despises for his Dragon Hoard of awesome gear! Love ya AC!!! *hugs*

Wrong... Most of the stuff on his list comes from the in game consignment store. Found by me, put there with a price tag of 20-50k. I mean, when I put something 'decent' in the in game consingment store... I tends to end up in his list.

It was banter. Banter is the magnificent art of using word play, opinions, exaggeration, irony, sarcasm, and other comedic themes to (playfully) humiliate, make fun of, and laugh at your friends.

I... I guess... We are no longer friends then. *Walks away sobbing.*

Valefort wrote:@invoker Several points, as you noted the "need" to loot is between quotations as in fact epic gear is not needed for PvE. The multiple epic shops that were inflicted on the server were pointless in that regard, what they achieved was more gear optimisation and standardisation. The looters will continue looting but the reward is now much inferior, relatively speaking, or even outright non existent for many items. That's a net loss to try and solve a jealousy issue that persiste nonetheless : a failure.

The value of gold is a problem without solution, adding expensive crafting will only make things worse unless we create a whole range of consumables that benefit everyone. A bad idea as it would add a needless step and would give more mechanical power to PCs, vanity items and features would work but not everyone is after the la test helmet signed by athorn.

The last point is true to an extent, which is simply time, as epic shops increased availability more than power.

I agree that epic shops did not solve the hoarding issue this server has as items that you cannot get via epic store just became that much harder to get via lootrunning. Impossible to buy with gold.

I dont understand how expensive crafting would make gold even more worthless though? If crafting a longsword would provide one better than anything you could ever find in a chest but costs you 1m gold people would lootrun for gold and not for 0.000001% RIG produced items.

Which sounds like a terrible idea to me, total optimization should be unreachable. One thing is sure crafting will not be better than lootgen items or epic shops.

Keep in mind that full optimization was never needed to beat the PvE content, that's why I think it must remain virtually unreachable (but epic shops are a big dent into this since you can build around the items you can get there and attain a peak of item optimization (RIG items are still better in most cases)).