Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

aaron22 wrote:

Tsidkenu wrote:I have initiated. One big plot fell down when the 'other' guild I was involving stopped playing. Then my guild contact with that guild stopped playing. DMs were on board with the plot (after much nagging and refusals to ammend what i wanted to attempt) but I had to shelve it due to players quitting. It's easy enough to plan things, but execution becomes an impossibility when one relies on other players... well... playing?

There's lots of things I'd like to try now but it somestimes feels like you're swimming up a waterfall just to get things 'approved', let alone trusting that your fellow players arent just going to quit tomorrow when things drag on for months.

this!!!!

what i also find is the players unable to maintain the focus needed to accomplish the goals they desire. i feel like tsid and i are playing the same game here... oh yea. we are.

^quoted for several truths there.

On the issue of quality of RP: It tends to fluctuate up and down. Sometimes I'll pop in game and be astonished by some of the roleplayers we have (in a good way ... or in a not-so-good way). Other times it seems pretty standard as to what I'm used to from video game roleplaying. As long as people are having fun, I'm happy; but it goes without saying that not everyone's a professional writer or storyteller.

On the same note, we have a tendency to poach really good, really active RPers for the DM Team. Taking them "out of circulation" in game as it were. Sometimes it feels like the more active the DM Team is, the fewer RP-focal-point PCs are running around.

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On the issue of evil RP: After many years on the server, watching multiple staff groups, I don't think the staff is anti-evil. I think what we tend to be is overly conservative.

Good characters have a tendency to do things incrementally (and usually reactively, as in, in reaction to a DM's events or villains). They start a focus group or host a bake sale to raise money to work towards some goal. It gives the DMs and others on staff time to get on board with the idea (and develop content for it). So they tend to be more successful. "Slow and steady wins the race" and all that.

Evil characters, on the other hand, tend to want dramatic changes. And they tend to want to take the action or actions that makes it happen. They want to light a building on fire or assassinate a key political figure. This discomforts a lot of people on staff because a lot of effort goes into maintaining stability (a status quo), and because it is difficult to react to in terms of development (if a building's lit on fire, it might be a month before the map gets updated to reflect that that building's been burned down).

Not saying one way is better or worse. Just that one has a higher success rate. When the Red Wizards or the Zhentarim got back into Baldur's Gate after being banished from the city, it was a coup for "team evil" -- but it wasn't an overnight thing. Both factions had to work their butts off over many months to make it happen. But that tends to be the way things "go down" historically. A sudden change or violent upheaval is a great storytelling tool when you can get the DMs behind you on it. Nothing makes waves like a Duke suddenly dying. But it requires a lot more effort and buy-in from staff, and has the tendency to alarm people who have a vested interest in keeping things "on lore" (or maybe "keeping the server like they found it" would be a more correct way of explaining it, which is a pretty widely held human tendency). So you'll be fighting an uphill battle on it, not because it's evil, but because it's a huge and sudden change instead of a series of small ones that we get used to over time. You have to make the staff trust you and trust your idea before they back it, which isn't always easy when what you're trying to do puts them in unfamiliar waters. Nobody wants to be the DM who introduces something to the server's storyline that later DMs are cursing your name over. (*Quietly hides his "Path of Many" storyline.*)

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On the issue of player turnover: Unfortunately, that's not something anyone can control. Sometimes it's not even that the player leaves, they just get bored of the character you've "bought into" for your plot or character development. It stinks when it happens, but you just gotta roll with it. We can't control when real life crops up or if someone else just isn't into the character you want them to play.

and what maecius says i have also said many times.. work WITH the staff and find a path you both can be happy with. big ideas are too big.. think smaller. like way smaller. you do not have to crush the fist in order to have "wanted posters" put up for you.

RP is RP here. I have seen good and bad. I am somewhere in the mediocre range myself going from murder hobo to campfire RPer at times.

On the note of EVIL. Like a few have said there are small time evil and big time evil active but everything they do takes a lot of time. Evil is somewhat limited here by bureaucracy of rules as well. That said it just means those who play evil have to do so more creatively so to speak. Some of the more insidious things take time for DM approval as we have a server rating to consider. I admit I have my frustrations with it as a player as well. When playing evil I think the biggest thing is being patient and working with the DMs on it.

Right now personally I feel like there is a this Carebear and or Trolls movie attitude on the server lately where we are going to hug out everything and scrapbook our problems away. I believe this to be a microcosm of the rules here. By limiting the amount of theme we have in a way limited the RP to a point where all the Teen rated things have been done again and again to a point of just being a rinse and repeat on the main story line with only the static and dynamic characters changing. What this in turn leads to is people sitting around the campfire telling backstory instead because the main plot is the same old song and dance.

While I understand the reason for the rules to limit certain types of RP that we have deemed to socially insensitive and promotion of that culture to allow in game. I think there needs to be some serious discussion on perhaps just making rules to combat that RP specifically and then opening up the rules to a more adult oriented theme and moving forward with the thought process of as this game gets older so does the average age of the players willing to continue playing on outdated systems. Younger players are always seeking better graphics, faster response and less old people governing their play with silly rules. In order to explore new lines of RP we must first open up lines of RP. I have examples but they will have to wait until the day they can be revealed due to the lines of RP being played out. I have to say that I have personally put together evil rp that seemed quite well written and was well within a teen rating but other server rules were fogging it up and ultimately made it so I have to do other things and jump through a thousand other hoops so it can be DM approved. There is some lag that happens with this process that in my opinion eventually burns a player out waiting on DM approval for every little thing they want to do. Truth is we need DM approval for a lot of evil RP. Good aligned RP rarely ever needs a DM approval as it by its very nature never really broaches upon the server rules. With so many heroes and not enough anti-heroes out there it gets stale and tired.

All of this is of course my opinion and I just felt like sharing it I guess. Maybe it is relevant or maybe not but that is how I feel.

There are still a lot of eccentric unique characters out there doing it their own way, but it seems a tiny bit homoginized compared to what I remember when I fist started. It's like people are just using thier own personalities through the avatar of a level 30 whatever. But - how would I know that?
I just do not see the attempt to be something in character that they are totally not, in real life. Tell me how wrong I am about this- I probably am.

Okay, so maybe its more like there is a socially acceptable way of RPing now....and people are becoming too inhibited to try it a different way.

Meh- maybe thats not true either, I dont know, but I do find other players are more haughty, than when I first started playing.

I find the Role Play itself has changed.
Maybe it is for the better, but I prefer action and adventure and attaining goals with my RP . I do not just RPing a pretty elven wizard in a pretty dress. I want to RP one while she is being hunted by a dragon or while she hunts said dragon.

But the RP around me now, feels less like Role Playing in a Forgotten Realms setting and more like playing house. You know 'house' that childhood game you friends sister used to make you play. You get married, start a family....that sort of thing.

It is far more social RP now, and less action RP.

Side note:
Has there been an increase in the number of female characters? Does that reflect an increase in female players? Or perhaps a decrease in male players? Or neither.
I just see a lot of these super-model type female players around these days. Perfect make-up. Lavish long hairsyles. And it seems they are starting to outnumer all the other 'types' of characters!
Hopefully I am not being sexist about this but I find it be really wierd. (confession: I rolled one of them myself)

Do you think chat rooms especially Discord has altered the way we RP our characters collectively?
I do.

There are still a lot of eccentric unique characters out there doing it their own way, but it seems a tiny bit homoginized compared to what I remember when I fist started. It's like people are just using thier own personalities through the avatar of a level 30 whatever. But - how would I know that?
I just do not see the attempt to be something in character that they are totally not, in real life. Tell me how wrong I am about this- I probably am.

This sounds more like an assumption made because of something on your end. Impossible to know unless you know every RPer in real life.

But the RP around me now, feels less like Role Playing in a Forgotten Realms setting and more like playing house. You know 'house' that childhood game you friends sister used to make you play. You get married, start a family....that sort of thing.

It is far more social RP now, and less action RP.

Well my advice as corny as it might sound would be "Be the change you wish to see". Players who push plots, create stories and get everyone involved are frankly rare. However in my experience when such players take up the initiative they typically get a lot of players and DMs jumping onto the wagon. So i would say rather then waiting around for one of these players, become one instead.

I see a fair bit of DM blaming in threads like this, but the fact is DM's are here to facilitate RP. Typically it all starts and stops with you the player. 2015 Mega plot was one of the best i have seen so far on Baldur's Gate. However keep in mind it was so because so many people got involved and invested. The entire event chain plague to undead armies could have easily died if players didn't push beyond Saving a gnome from undead.

Tekill wrote: I just do not see the attempt to be something in character that they are totally not, in real life. Tell me how wrong I am about this- I probably am.

While it's fair to assume there's often (at least) a small part of the player in every character played (a different one, as characters differ), my experience tells me otherwise.

But the RP around me now, feels less like Role Playing in a Forgotten Realms setting and more like playing house. You know 'house' that childhood game you friends sister used to make you play. You get married, start a family....that sort of thing.

It is far more social RP now, and less action RP.

I can't comment on the RP around you. If you, however, wonder whether that's a more general condition, well...not for me, nor those RPing around me. Quite the opposite, to the point I should probably, realistically, develop that aspect of my characters more. I just lack the interest to do so.

Side note:
Has there been an increase in the number of female characters? Does that reflect an increase in female players? Or perhaps a decrease in male players? Or neither.
I just see a lot of these super-model type female players around these days. Perfect make-up. Lavish long hairsyles. And it seems they are starting to outnumer all the other 'types' of characters!
Hopefully I am not being sexist about this but I find it be really wierd. (confession: I rolled one of them myself)

Hint: female players hardly ever play characters portrayed like that (aside from the hairstyle).

There are quite a few girls playing. Those aren't them.

On a personal note, I don't play females. Never have. I deem it beyond my RP abilities, among other things.

Tsidkenu wrote:In my particular case it is sheer unavailability. Not only the fact I live in a far-off timezone (meaning no DM interaction, no events, max ~25 players online, most of whom hide in guild halls I'm ICly banned from ), but prioritisation of my work life over my gaming life means I'm pretty much a spectator these days.

So apologies to all the players (like Nathan, Glowfire, Mercator, Wren) who are still hunting for outstanding RP with me or whatever. You'll never see me on in your timezone unless its a Fri or Sat, and even those I can't guarantee any more.

It happens when it happens, and I'm looking forward to it

I don't know how many times I started to reply now and then deleted the whole thing again, but as a relatively new player I found it quite hard to get into roleplay and more than the occasional "lets try to find an IC reason to party up". I think it needs a certain kind of character (both player and toon - note that I absolutely hate the word "toon" and only use it instead of "character" to avoid confusion in this post), and not everyone's "build like that" (player and toon). When you build your "toon" you probably should already have made a plan if it should be able to engage in social roleplay or not, because for many types it might be impossible to get into it without sacrificing your "toons" integrity.
Being proactive is probably the key here for picking the lock to established RP groups, but that requires a lot of guts and sometimes it feels like you should've studied the server lore for months before attempting to do so, because your "toons" roleplay will certainly be subjected to the "ultimate noob test" ("you come from XXX? How is it possible you didn't know about YYY happening there, and how come you pray to god ZZZ then, please explain in detail!"). To get into social Rp I'd say it's best to start with a naive, good-aligned, know nothing but eager to learn toon who likes parties... maybe a reason why there are so many bards around?
Otherwise, best make a character who's a good addition to adventuring parties and hope that some RP starts on the road between regular adventuring mates. I think really good RP can start from these bonds, but the players involved should try their best to move that RP from adventuring only into something more "social" too so stories can emerge and others can get involved too.

Last note, of course 'm not good at any of that, just rambling...

Edit: As I was just reminded... it also requires a thicker skin to play a female toon. If your first introduction to a female character is some oh-so-funny remark about her appearance though, maybe don't be too surprised if that character isn't up for more in-depth roleplay with you anymore. Just saying.

casadechrisso wrote:

Edit: As I was just reminded... it also requires a thicker skin to play a female toon. If your first introduction to a female character is some oh-so-funny remark about her appearance though, maybe don't be too surprised if that character isn't up for more in-depth roleplay with you anymore. Just saying.

It does, and sadly you'll have some who find it amusing to them to make rude and/or nasty ic and ooc comments about you or your character, sometimes without any reason. Just screenshot, submit and remind yourself that such things only have the power to affect that you that you give them, and that each moment you spend troubled by it is a moment you grant the person power over you. Chin up though and I hope we can ICly meet up and RP soon!

I have FoF in my build.. which translates to being a forest hermit in my book.. i often let others initiate RP, but react and engage then after (thanks Raina!). Or, I lean on others to use my RP in a group setting like i do with my friends wizard to enter more civilized areas which results in half the server challenging me in the arena while everyone around me bets on my success or failure. Great little things like this are what I use on one of my more complicated toons RP wise. So keep in mind, some of us murder hobos are just playing our character sheets.

Akroma666 wrote:I have FoF in my build.. which translates to being a forest hermit in my book.. i often let others initiate RP, but react and engage then after (thanks Raina!). Or, I lean on others to use my RP in a group setting like i do with my friends wizard to enter more civilized areas which results in half the server challenging me in the arena while everyone around me bets on my success or failure. Great little things like this are what I use on one of my more complicated toons RP wise. So keep in mind, some of us murder hobos are just playing our character sheets.

<3 but ...one question...did he seriously call her Kitten the other night?!

Some observations perhaps related to what others are feeling/seeing.

Snowflakes. Too many think they're characters are special. When everyone's characters are snowflakes, they're the same as everyone else. You're not special princess. And neither is your toon.
Some of the greatest fictional tales are often about regular joe/jill rising up from some downtrodden state to find themselves and make their great mark on the world.
TBH... are we actually running out of character stories? Surely we've done them all to death by now.


Story consistency. Running a consistent story from either side of the book is hard. But it's no excuse to smash lore aside and derail existing progressive roleplay. This is a major handbrake and mood killer. More communication between participants from all sides is needed. No one has all the answers, ask questions if you have gaps in your portfolio.


Stale, is a perfectly acceptable word to describe a situation that you are no longer finding refreshing and captivating. Well-worn.


Some positives.
There are some amazing people working in the shadows and on the sidelines both in the Staff and the general playerbase to keep things moving forward to the best of their ability.
Between the Media Team, Devs and QC, a great deal of new ideas have been birthed within the server to try and keep things refreshing.
The DM team has undergone some significant changes in their circle over the last 12 months, which is nothing new in the world of NWN PW's. Signs indicate a possible good period coming up.

Let's not forget exactly what this game is. An OLD game. Well and truly alive beyond planned Life of Asset designs. TBH, I'm just thankful for the fact I have somewhere to explore Forgotten Realm fiction lore, besides my copious novels, or that grindfest mmo Neverwinter.
But I know that, Nothing Lives Forever.

electric mayhem wrote:When everyone's characters are snowflakes, they're the same as everyone else. You're not special princess. And neither is your toon.
Some of the greatest fictional tales are often about regular joe/jill rising up from some downtrodden state to find themselves and make their great mark on the world.
TBH... are we actually running out of character stories? Surely we've done them all to death by now.

I have a slightly different take on the matter. Namely, regular Joe and Jill ARE special. Like everyone else. While some people can share traits, nobody is the same, not even in the millions...not to mention a handful (a hundred?Two?) of the most exceptional and powerful individuals roaming the world.

Everyone is special. It's only a matter of putting these special abilities to the service of the setting and your fellow players, rather than to their detriment (for instance, trying to be "MORE special" than them...which is acceptable at times, but it gets old fast. Mary Sue docet.). Peculiar, unique characters enriching the setting are great for the server. Those disrespecting it...not so much.

And no. We are definitely NOT running out of character stories. I read good stories often enough, and I hope my fellow players aren't tired of mines, either.

But I know that, Nothing Lives Forever.

Perhaps not...but true legends never die.

Don't prepare the funeral just yet .

Perhaps not...but true legends never die.

Don't prepare the funeral just yet .