Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I don't want to side-track the thread, but I have to mention. What you're saying in point 2) is a hugely double-edged sword and rather short-sighted.

You see, on this server? The mentality that you describe - dramas arising and such - is present literally across all spectrums. It's not something that that's only happening to when evil wins vs good. When good characters win vs evil characters? There's been a -ton- of drama as well, due to various reasons without getting into details. It's not one-sided at all. That includes PVP, hostility between species and organisations.

You've been here long enough to see it, yourself.

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:59 am Well, I didn't expect so many people to support random backgroundless pvps! I have a few things to add here:

1) We're not playing npcs. Nominally, all the characters we play are adventurers (drow and orcs too), we don't play yet another orc brute from some cave with loot, or yet another drow bandit, or yet another human guard. Every character is an exception, and it's alright to RP a certain racial background, but imho it's a poor tone calling someone's RP less heavy if the person found a way to resolve some situation peacefully instead of mindlessly attacking or just didn't feel like acting hostile for no actual reason. On the server we have (and had) tons of crossrealm non-hostile rp that can't be called poor or shallow.

Weren't you the one whose view of "blind hostility" seemingly being lesser RP that I just responded to in my previous post?
Why do you get to decide whether our character is or is not just another human guard or drow bandit? We enabled the commoner class on the server, after all.

I didn't say anything diverging from the norm necessarily being lesser RP. I have an Eilistraeen moon elf that I've played for years (though extremely few know that she is Eilistraeen ICly - and also I haven't actually played her actively for a bit). So I'm personally not opposed to normbreaking characters. But I recognise that the norm will be - as it suggests - the norm.

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:59 am2) I noticed that everyone who supports killing on sight victimizes evil races. Your tone is like "I'll kill that drow if I see it". But what if drow kills your character instead? My point is everytime in server history team evil was winning it was leading to mass dramas and global online decrease. When attacking the said evil drow on sight, keep in mind the drow can win that pvp and you won't have any moral right to complain about consequences since you were rooting for attacking them on sight in the first place. Why I don't see any rhetorics like "If I see a human on my drow I'll kill it on sight"? When drow are getting bullied, it never causes drama, only when surfacers are it does. Why is it so one-sided?

Ravial makes a good point here, but there's also the fact that good aligned people tend to be less tolerant of evil people than the other way around. And there are good reasons for this, at least on the surface. With the exception of Soubar, Darkhold, Corm Orp (weeeell...) and Roaringshore, the areas on the server are neutral (the kind that would rather have good aligned neighbours than evil aligned neighbours), with maybe a couple neutral-leaning-good places (Beregost [because of Kelddath's influence], the elven settlements, Kraak Helzak and Candlekeep [largely because of Tethtoril] - only one of those being non-guild). And that means the evil people who go to these places are the kind of evil people who don't proudly proclaim to be anti-good. Instead, they tend towards the infiltrator type.

I personally wish we did have more proud, evil and properly anti-good characters on the server. I prefer that kind of evil, myself. Charactes who know they are evil and don't try to hide it in "oh, but paladins are hypocrites". Like, I'd love to see more evils being "No, paladins are good and benevolent. Benevolence is weak. I despise goodness. The strong embrace evil!"

But this is becoming quite a tangent.

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:59 am3) OOC-wise, random pvps are discouraged I think since nobody wants to deal with yet another pvp investigation. I've had lots of them and that's not fun for any side taking part. Emoted hostility and OOC-courtesy over attacking on sight!

Again, this is departing from the topic at hand, but I probably agree with you here. There's little point in the PvP if it can't be fun for both sides - even at loss.

From Drizzt's Guide:
"Sshamath is the most cosmopolitan Underdark settlement, a well regarded trading partner with strong ties everywhere. Residents welcome all who come to trade, regardless of race, creed, or school of thought. Well travelled tunnels wind east through the caverns..."




"Residents welcome all who come to trade"
"Well travelled tunnels"

yes, there is hostility from Drow but for Sshamath it is much less than the average Drow city. That's lore.

Drow are generally much more tolerant in lore than they are usually portrayed on most PWs. This is why i like Sshamath on BG.

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:59 am Well, I didn't expect so many people to support random backgroundless pvps! I have a few things to add here:

1) We're not playing npcs. Nominally, all the characters we play are adventurers (drow and orcs too), we don't play yet another orc brute from some cave with loot, or yet another drow bandit, or yet another human guard. Every character is an exception, and it's alright to RP a certain racial background, but imho it's a poor tone calling someone's RP less heavy if the person found a way to resolve some situation peacefully instead of mindlessly attacking or just didn't feel like acting hostile for no actual reason. On the server we have (and had) tons of crossrealm non-hostile rp that can't be called poor or shallow.

2) I noticed that everyone who supports killing on sight victimizes evil races. Your tone is like "I'll kill that drow if I see it". But what if drow kills your character instead? My point is everytime in server history team evil was winning it was leading to mass dramas and global online decrease. When attacking the said evil drow on sight, keep in mind the drow can win that pvp and you won't have any moral right to complain about consequences since you were rooting for attacking them on sight in the first place. Why I don't see any rhetorics like "If I see a human on my drow I'll kill it on sight"? When drow are getting bullied, it never causes drama, only when surfacers are it does. Why is it so one-sided?

3) OOC-wise, random pvps are discouraged I think since nobody wants to deal with yet another pvp investigation. I've had lots of them and that's not fun for any side taking part. Emoted hostility and OOC-courtesy over attacking on sight!

1. Ah yeah, "solving" the situation by bending RP , would you react the dame way to a gray orc npc than a gray orc player? Or even better, knowing the player behind a drow because lets be honest, many people disposition ICly is influenced OOCly, as many people would react differently to a drow played by their friend than a random drow they found. Tolerance is treason as others said, you dont have to pvp all the time but you have to stay true to your character RP.

2. Speak for yourself, I seen drama for all reason, even when pvping and kidnapping consenting parties, someone always makes drama out of anything.

3. This is not to support random pvp, but to act according to the setting. Seriously , drow are not WoW dark elves.


And as Ravial said, most people who go trade to Sshamath are zhents, red wizards and other evil things. You wont find paladins or good chars making deals with evil chars many times, especially because bringing gold to Sshamath means you would support slavery, necromancy and just making trade flow for a mainly evil city.

–331 DR Year of Shadows Fleeting
The elf armies of the Coronals Tannivh of Cormanthyr and Connak of Rystall Wood finally break the greater defenses of the Twisted Tower and destroy all remaining drow slavers within the tower. The tower is left in the hands of good dark elf allies, and it is a great temple to Eilistraee within a century.

The Soldier’s Blade [500] is lost during this great battle, captured by the drow in their slaying of Lord Orym Hawksong during the fall of the Twisted Tower. The blade and the body of Lord Orym are taken down into the Underdark as spoils of war by the fleeing drow.
[Cormanthyr Empire of Elves, p.34]

In the Year of Shadows Fleeting (-331 DR), the drow of the Twisted Tower fell to the armies of Cormanthyr and Rystal Wood was left in the hands of good-aligned dark elf allies. Within a century, the Tower of the Dark Moon was Eilistraee's greatest temple in the Realms. [Demihuman Deities p.14]

c-310s
In gratitude for their aid in the Shadow Wars, The Coronal allows the settlement of some reformed, surface-acclimated drow into some remote lands of Cormanthyr to the east of Cormanthor.
[Cormanthyr Empire of Elves, p.34]

The Dark Maiden's temple fell once again to the drow beneath Cormanthyr in the Year of the Apparition (190 DR) and survives today as Shadowdale's primary redoubt where it is known by its original name, the Twisted Tower. All that remains of the Dark Maiden's legacy is the swirl of Eilistraee's moonfire that envelops any follower of Eilistraee who mentions her name within the once-sacred halls. [Demihuman Deities p.14]

194 Year of Coiling Smoke
The temple to Eilistraee and its good dark elves are slaughtered by a new infestation of drow from below; the temple is restored as the Twisted Tower military garrison. [Cormanthyr Empire of Elves, p.37]

The thing that has always baffled me is that many are perfectly willing to follow the lore of the setting with regards to drow and automatically, with machine-like regularity, roleplay fear, hostility, apprehension, even envy of 41 SR to help keep up PvP frag count, but won't bat an eyelid at tieflings with tails, horns, blue skin, scales, red eyes, devil tattoos, fiery auras, corpse-like appearances, claws, top hats, etc. Indeed, the rare few who but show the slightest degree of discomfort may be the ones apt to receive suspicious side glances or even be accused of racism.

Sometimes, these negative reactions even cross over into OOC territory, with some people surreptitiously expressing, outside the game or in tells, OOC disgust at the knowledge of there being more drow activity on the server than they would like to see, as though it's some kind of epidemic that they believe they ought to cure by some means or other.

Orcs can be a mixed bag too.

I just find it all so very curious.

I agree with you, especially for tieffelins.

The tiffelins look like demons. They are confused with this breed. They should have serious reactions of fright and hostility, from PC and NPC.

In the same way, the aasimars could have a big problem with evils cults, who see in each of them potentials fanatic ennemis.

Or they might want to attack them, to please their infernal masters.


And besides, the PCs tiffelins should, like the drow, be for the vast majority, evil aligned. Rarely neutrals. But not good.

To be tieffelins it will have to correspond to a worse status than a semi-orc in my opinion. A man with horns and a devil's tail, in my opinion, is even more scared than a half-orc.

But hey, that's my vision of the thing.

There is nothing in the FR rules that prohibits tieflings of good alignment. They're just extremely rare amongst the common non-adventuring populace.

People just want more Planescape and less Forgotten Realms, for BGTSCC.

Tieflings do not usually ‘look like demons’ - they have ONE OR TWO DISTINGUISHING FEATURES but otherwise ‘look human’

In many cases tieflings can hide the feature or features and pass for human. Very often, when they can, this is probably what most tieflings do.

Steve wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:06 am People just want more Planescape and less Forgotten Realms, for BGTSCC.

Some people want their own version of Forgotten Realms without the bits of lore they personally dislike and try and convince the rest, either through words or repeated PvP, that their imagined version is actually canon.

PvP, standing for Player versus Player, is really not appropriate for a collaborative, role playing environment such as BGTSCC. PvP implies that one or more PLAYER(S) is against another one or more Players...and that would be an OOC (out of character) issue.

The above behavior has little to no relevance when discussing Canon Lore, Server Lore, etc.

I prefer to work with/utilize CvC, standing for Character versus Character. It is much more empowering and eliviates any OOC nonesense, when it comes to issues of hostility, racism, bigotry that is Lore based, Character based.

Thus, conflict that I RP with my Characters is an act, is acting, is "living" in the Canon I have CHOSEN, and not the one I want it to be subjectively.

So don't take my RP as a personal Player attack because I reflect Canon Lore attitudes that I've researched. If you want to blame someone, blame...Ed Greenwood!!!

Conflict thro RP

We need more conflict but rp’ed rather than just PVP’ed

It makes sense for certain characters to draw their weapons as soon as they spot a drow or an orc.
On the other hand, I think the server would benefit from more UD/Surface rp with for example Bregan D'aerthe for evil mercenary/intrigue rp. Sadly, that kind of rp is quite hard to do on this server with the ooc rules and IC laws. Every single time I stumbled into someone on my drow they were more concerned about breaking the laws than the fact that they were face to face with a drow that might be about to stab them.