chad878262 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:41 pm
Barkskin (+1 AC over Epic Natural Armor Amulet, opens up neck slot), Halo of Sand (opens up deflection AC slot), Embrace the Wild (free blindfight, opens up feat), Aid/blessed aim/hawkeye (+3 AB and Aid potions last 3 minutes vs. 30 minutes from spell), Freedom of Movement, Pass without a trace, (mass) camouflage, Cat's Grace/Owl's Wisdom/Bear's Endurance (saves inventory slots), Longstrider (faster movement on top of stealth run and ranger movement increase for the lulz), Blades of Fire (extended).... This is just a quick list so I am sure I missed some, but the Ranger list is amazing. Not *AS AMAZING* as the expanded Paladin list on BG, but still saying it's garbage just shows a lack of understanding how equipment works. With these spells the only stat increasing item you need is for STR, and hey, what do you know there are +4 STR gloves available! The rest of your slots can essentially be for getting as much +Saves gear as possible which will nullify your one weakness (bad will saves). Your FYI along with your assumption that DEX Ranger is better than STR ranger for PTWF simply shows that let's just say you built a less than optimized ranger and then blamed your results on the class being bad rather than making any sort of effort to understand it.
- I'm well aware of the spell list for the ranger. It doesn't disapprove what I said as you can use item to replace what they have already spellwise. In fact, Rangers can get 10 base + 16 from enchantments (like Nat, Def, etc.) + 1 from light clothing + 1 tumble + 1 luck of heroes + 10 Dexterity with items, +1 from Barkskin for 40 (Not counting Protective Ward), but then Rangers aren't know for their stalwart-ness. Although my Shield bashing Ranger was more than capable of getting 46 AC. Not sure why all these spell are mentioned and a lot of other spells can be replace with wands/potions as mentioned earlier. I'm not sure why they were mentioned since I do fine without them or can substitute them. Flaming Weapon is a perfect example as there is a wand that allows me to cast it 50 times where as a ranger can only cast it 4 times. (Same with the other spells) It is ONE of the MANY reasons why the Ranger spell list sucks.
- Go try a dexterity archer ranger mix that does 200ish on one-shot than get back to me. But that isn't the only advantage of a dexterity bow ranger get over PTWF such as being out of spell range, having more of a hit & run distancing when using HIPS, better results when setting traps, etc. I've played a shield bashing Ranger who was more strength based, but the problem is he gets surrounded or was in spell range, which is the same weakness as a PTWF. And before you say I don't know what I am talking about, I have played Rangers in other servers where they had bigger boosts than this server has provided and they still fell short mainly for the reason stated back on pages before your posted, which you should READ. Rangers are a situational class who do a boat load of damage IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS. In fact, this discussion about OUTDOOR HIPS is literally about a situational feat. Again, if you had read my previous page, which you didn't, and it's painful evident, rangers are awesome in situations where they fighting a favor enemy outside and suck when they are not outside or fighting against a favored enemy. Many characters do what they can and better without it be very situational. One of the reasons why Cavestalker is a bad class and not needed because it's a situational PrC to give a situational class an optional to become completely universal in HIPS when you get that ANYWAY through Shadowdancer. The whole premise of having two option for two different HIPS is not a well thought out one for reason I noted since most players with building knowledge (and a good one at that) will go Shadowdancer while everyone will go cavestalker for...reasons.
For an Archer Ranger DEX is a fine option, for sure, but so is maxing WIS for a Zen Archer with a huge amount of spells to buff himself and his pet up (which with max wis can be just as strong as a pure druids pet).
Not why sure why this was even mentioned.
yeah even with the free feats, they are a bit starved for them if going PTWF. It's a bit less of a chore (but still by no means feat rich) on the archery side. For a PTWF "Pure/mostly pure" Ranger you would likely end up with LoH, CE, ICE, Protective Ward, Steadfast, Extend Spell which leaves you with one feat left (which would be practiced caster if you take any dip other than Cave Stalker or Harper Scout). So if you add in Dodge and Mobility you need to pick two of the above feats to drop for your Shadow Dancer, probably Steadfast (since CON won't likely be higher than WIS and your saves aren't your strong point) and then you'll have to decide on losing extend (which hurts because they have many good spells and extend is huge), ICE (hurts because now you can't reach 52 AC even with UMD) or PSC (hurts because greater dispel spam area's are essentially a non-starter for you). So literally, taking dodge and mobility does hurt a ranger, because those free feats give them a 'thing' (toughness to put them at 9HP/level instead of 8, but then everyone these days eventually wears a ring that gives toughness, +4 fort, +2 will/reflex saves and either TWF or Archery feats for their style), those free feats do not make them less feat starved.
Do not claim Ranger is feat starve class if they get free feats. The difference between a ranger and a fighter is that Ranger has a set path doesn't require them to meet the requirements allowing to abuse the hell out of the game mechanics. That and they can still get feats on top those free feats based on their path. I don't need to free of slots for spells or items if all I need is the items required to booster my existing feats or replace the function of my spells. Plus you can equip items that give you even more feats. And the rest has nothing to do with rangers being a feat starved class and feat mentioned have nothing to do with playing a Ranger as you don't need those feats to play any type of Ranger.
I am not sure if you have done your research and just came to an inaccurate conclusion or if you just played with a given style on your ranger and refused to try different approaches, but Ranger is one of the most well balanced classes on the server thanks basically to an expanded spell list and full caster progression. They are by no means OP or anything, but nor are they in a situation where they desperately need help or are somehow unplayable.
I can only say, look at the past posts before you assume you have a good knowledge of Rangers because this statement seems to apply the opposite and moreover a basic view of rangers. Not all rangers are PTWF no more than they are archers. You have to look at the key feats that define the class, which is...HIPS, evasion, light armor proficiency, shield proficiency, and martial/simple weaponry. The path you take and the favored enemy you select determines how you play the class, but it is those feats mentioned earlier that define it.
