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Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:22 am
by Planehopper
What stops you from restricting your own game play?
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:39 am
by Steve
Planehopper wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:22 am
What stops you from restricting your own game play?
Nothing is stopping me. I start a Level 1 toon almost once per year, so that I can enjoy the progression.
But as was mentioned above, it’s a negative on RP when you the player thinks they are interacting with another PC of equal Level and equal Power (items) as yours, but then you group up or get into CvC (PvP) and you then see the RP of rofflestomping.
If one can call that RP.
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:18 pm
by yyj
This isn't about restricting gameplay, but I think that a lot of items that are considered vendor trash will actually gain market value. Probably this would be a small market where nothing costs above 10k and exclusively used by PCs that are level 15 or lower, but it's something.
If people don't like it and I have read all the posts here it seems that bringing it back will not be too feasible to implement.
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:16 am
by Wandering_Woodsman
Just where in hell are you lot finding all these epic items, anyhow?
Toman has low 30 AC, and doesn't do well against, well anything. He can strike fairly well, but he's not tanky at all. That he survives half of his encounters is a miracle in and of itself.
Really, give me directions to this epic store, or at least a place where I can find something useful or buy it without becoming a pauper. Yeesh.
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:46 am
by Tanlaus
Wandering_Woodsman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:16 am
Just where in hell are you lot finding all these epic items, anyhow?
Toman has low 30 AC, and doesn't do well against, well anything. He can strike fairly well, but he's not tanky at all. That he survives half of his encounters is a miracle in and of itself.
Really, give me directions to this epic store, or at least a place where I can find something useful or buy it without becoming a pauper. Yeesh.
Epic store is in the wide I just forget the merchant’s name as I usually play UD.
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:34 pm
by Steve
Wandering_Woodsman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:16 am
Just where in hell are you lot finding all these epic items, anyhow?
Yeesh.
First, you have to sell your soul to the Greater God of Grinding. Taking his unholy name into your RP—or replacing it with, as the case may be...—you repeat His dogma over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Once you have satiated His thirst for mindless grinding loops, and you’ve laid your PCs existence bare to his forever alluring but usually denying gracing in gifts, you just may be deemed lucky, and your PC will find that Epic Phat Loot(z).
Or, you’ll find a mimic that will spank your toon good. Ha ha! Good IG joke, yes?!?
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:35 pm
by thepaganking
If you play enough epic loot will fall and you will be happy. Probably at least half if not more of my equipment (epic) is from drops, not from a store.
As to level restrictions on items - why? Yes, some people will love that, some people will hate that, and I daresay, the DM team will hate trying to implement.
Let people set their own limitations and if they abuse the rules or people because they are low level with high level gear, then punish them, do not punish the rest of the server population that might not want what you think is good or better.
TPK.
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:19 pm
by yyj
thepaganking wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:35 pm
If you play enough epic loot will fall and you will be happy. Probably at least half if not more of my equipment (epic) is from drops, not from a store.
As to level restrictions on items - why? Yes, some people will love that, some people will hate that, and I daresay, the DM team will hate trying to implement.
Let people set their own limitations and if they abuse the rules or people because they are low level with high level gear, then punish them, do not punish the rest of the server population that might not want what you think is good or better.
TPK.
I agree, you can get loot without grinding, maybe just going once or two a week to kill an epic boss, in a few months you can get something, of course if you grind the hell out of them you will see more results but that depends on each person, everyone has their own fun.
The main reason why I started this thread is because it would really make a difference and bring a market for items that are otherwise considered vendor trash.
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:36 pm
by Ewe
mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:18 pm
The reason the restrictions were removed was that there were items - especially those with SR - that had high level requirements. When a character reached that level, the item was subpar. Also DM rewards with high level restriction were given to low level characters for taking part in campaigns, which meant that they wouldnt be able to use the items for weeks/months.
To a lesser degree, removing restrictions somewhat made it a bit easier for low level characters to participate in events with epic characters, especially when skill rolls are requested.
Even with level restrictions a character can be optimized to have higher AC compared to the mobs AB. It doesnt matter whether the characters total ac caps the mob's AB by 1 or 101 - the mob can only hit when rolling 20s. The advantage results only from the AB bonus from weapons and stats - to a lesser degree from damage too, but the weapons on BG have very low damage bonuses. By the time a character is able to use +2 weapons we are talking about a difference of +2 or +3 AB.
TL;DR
With level restrictions or not, all characters can be optimized to run through dungeons - if that is what they want - but without level restrictions there are no items with irrational level requirements and allows low level characters easier access to events
With level restrictions or not, one still cannot control how other players decide to play the game.
I respectfully disagree. For example, a level 1 character with a 32 SR item can essentially be immune to magic for majority of the low level grind. This would not happen with item level restrictions.
Also, the damage output is much higher when availed +4 weapons.
Further, scrolls such as Greater Planar Binding which should be level locked can be used by level 1's.
Hell, at level 1 I can buy epic level throwing axes in the Blushing Mermaid and basically be invincible to most all of the content for over half of the pre-epic leveling.
Couple that with over 70% of our in-game areas and dungeons are aimed at lower levels, and you're basically saying it's fine to cheese the entire game.
I mean there is far more cheese available with these restrictions off, that trivializes everything even when compared to a gear level appropriate "optimization."
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:53 pm
by Hoihe
What ways could we turn vendor trash into something that has actual market value once more without level restrictions?
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:59 pm
by Rhifox
Hoihe wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:53 pm
What ways could we turn vendor trash into something that has actual market value once more without level restrictions?
Crafting system, deconstruct/disenchant into material components.
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:27 am
by Blame The Rogue
to be fair, i feel that is something that needs to be addressed. why do we have 70% of our areas designed for lower level content, when level 30 is max level? imo, we have that backwards. anyone who plays long enough will have their main character level 30, and be looking for things to do. and with lower level dungeons no longer granting worthwhile treasure to epic characters, you end up with epic characters running out of areas to adventure, leading to boredom, leading to player exits. even if a player is a part-timer, they can achieve 30 in a year, and if they love their character, as many players do, they will play that character for years and years after reaching max level, and be looking for content
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:27 am
by Steve
Blame The Rogue wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:27 am
to be fair, i feel that is something that needs to be addressed. why do we have 70% of our areas designed for lower level content, when level 30 is max level? imo, we have that backwards. anyone who plays long enough will have their main character level 30, and be looking for things to do. and with lower level dungeons no longer granting worthwhile treasure to epic characters, you end up with epic characters running out of areas to adventure, leading to boredom, leading to player exits. even if a player is a part-timer, they can achieve 30 in a year, and if they love their character, as many players do, they will play that character for years and years after reaching max level, and be looking for content
For a long, long time, in the history of this Server, it was the active concept to slow down leveling progression, so that we DIDNT have Level 30s being the majority of the PCs populating the Server at any/every moment of the day.
While I agree that it does make some sense to have more Areas suited for the longer “existence” of a PC, since it does simple take exponential time to level the higher one gets, I think it is also much more difficult to design and balance for Epic Level Areas, because really, the basic D&D mechanics that NWN2 is built upon are not very...functional...the higher you get. A PC just rockets to god-like power too fast, while some builds actually struggle, even though they are epic level.
Maybe we can look to the future after the Server Split that more Areas are put in at the higher level. But really, the game doesn’t offer that much challenge anyway because our toons are all essentially immortal, especially so AT level 30.
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:21 am
by thepaganking
Lower level dungeons have been designed, from what I see running those on a regular basis with new builds, for more than level limited gear - they can be deadly and may cause people to leave based solely on dying too often. Especially when you are talking builds that are weak at lower levels, you force people to only play when they can find a party - a limitation that can really restrict people that may only have certain times a day or week to play.
Example: 1st level rogue. You cannot even get weapon finesse at first level, so have to wait two levels to even get your AB up to a point where you can hit low level content. Also, +1 dagger - death by a thousand cuts? All the while you are getting beat like a circus monkey because your AC sucks and you take an hour to kill something.
Again, if you want to cut the cheese as you say, then restrict yourself. Only buy and equip your characters with what you believe is appropriate, but don't screw it up for others that like to solo, sometimes can only solo, or just like trying different types of builds.
And, changing the entire server just to build a market for low level market seems extreme, IMO.
Re: Bring back vanilla item level restriction
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:37 am
by Steve
Side note: a 1st Level DEX high Rogue uses a Sling to kill from a distance. Also, an ECL 0 PC can almost make it to Lvl 3 by doing the BG city quests which pose no danger (except Merchant League quest).
Sure, at the end of the day, we are all left to essentially self-management—you play in the environment that is available, and you play to your desires for enjoyment.
Yet, it is unfortunate to accept such wide mechanical disparity, especially if you are a newbie,
In the end, however, playing against the mechanics of the Server no longer is about Items or mechanical restrictions, it is about player knowledge. Eventually, an experienced player can meta the Content so that they could level from 1-30 with no mulling by playing blind, deaf and drunk.
But as Ewe recently posted, removing Item level restrictions just made it a farce.