Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

yyj wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:42 pm I dislike this idea simply because there is no way to properly police it.

In fact I think that it will be gamed and the usual people will be maxed out in no time.

That’s how it works thou…

Put in the time and work reap the rewards.

Ravial wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:47 pm

DM Ghost wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:33 pm As a DM, I am hoping that it means any reputation/standing gain is entirely on DM judgment, so that it doesn't become a system to be gamed.

It's a very cool idea, though. Opens up a lot of fun opportunities.

This. It's the same worry that I have. Making a system vulnerable to just being gamed sounds like a very poor idea, considering the fact that you'll be able to RP being hostile to an x group, but be on their friends list with reputation, just because you can.

It seems unrealistic to say that a system that is entirely in the hands of people can't be gamed. We've had multiple instances of biased actions across the decade that we've been here. I would much rather it be, at the very least, a combination of DM and automated gains/losses. Tossing the human factor aside (which you'd be wrong to do) the representation across timezones alone would make this system impossible to maintain correctly.

DMs don't DM in my timezone. How would that work out for me?

Planehopper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:51 pm

It seems unrealistic to say that a system that is entirely in the hands of people can't be gamed. We've had multiple instances of biased actions across the decade that we've been here. I would much rather it be, at the very least, a combination of DM and automated gains/losses. Tossing the human factor aside (which you'd be wrong to do) the representation across timezones alone would make this system impossible to maintain correctly.

DMs don't DM in my timezone. How would that work out for me?

In the context of things being gamed and such, you are correct sir. It is ignorance in the least to not think that humans on some level do not bias with some things, with jaded talk and more. I mean I am jaded in the idea of the allowance of a more automated system, as we both had reflections it would seem on the error of the human and the ups and downs that back around each time after we think it has been fixed.

All in all, this is my stance of things. If we had a reliable system in place with automated gain and loss it will help remove some of that problem vs if it were purely handled by the human.

Planehopper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:51 pm

Ravial wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:47 pm

DM Ghost wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:33 pm As a DM, I am hoping that it means any reputation/standing gain is entirely on DM judgment, so that it doesn't become a system to be gamed.

It's a very cool idea, though. Opens up a lot of fun opportunities.

This. It's the same worry that I have. Making a system vulnerable to just being gamed sounds like a very poor idea, considering the fact that you'll be able to RP being hostile to an x group, but be on their friends list with reputation, just because you can.

It seems unrealistic to say that a system that is entirely in the hands of people can't be gamed. We've had multiple instances of biased actions across the decade that we've been here. I would much rather it be, at the very least, a combination of DM and automated gains/losses. Tossing the human factor aside (which you'd be wrong to do) the representation across timezones alone would make this system impossible to maintain correctly.

DMs don't DM in my timezone. How would that work out for me?

I mean yes there's a very infamous recent case that happened last month and it showed glaring issues, it may be just a lot of work to catch cheating individuals and it will ruin the system by itself, there are no policing systems as it was proven before so I am very very skeptical.

This is meant to be 'gamed'. It is meant to be an activity, like other game activities such as adventuring and looting. There are meant to be paths through which one can gain and lose reputation through gameplay. Basic public factions would be able to be adjusted through just player activity. Other, more important factions would be under DM control, not freely adjustable. Guild factions would be under DM and guild officer control, not freely adjustable. And we can probably implement a way for DMs to 'lock' a player's reputation with a specific faction, too, if they don't want that character to be able to adjust it manually.

There will be checks against obvious abuses, like becoming friendly with a monster faction and then using that to rob all of their chests or freely assault the boss. That'll be a pretty quick route to undoing all the effort made to get friendly.

And if all of that is still too much for people... well, it's still possible to just lock all adjustments behind DMs. Even if locked behind DMs, just having the factions made and implemented would open up the potential for people RPing to build or erode relationships between the various groups around the world. I think that wouldn't be as fun as allowing some amount to be done as an everyday in-game activity, but it's a possibility.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:30 pm There will be checks against obvious abuses, like becoming friendly with a monster faction and then using that to rob all of their chests or freely assault the boss. That'll be a pretty quick route to undoing all the effort made to get friendly.

PvP concern also comes to mind here, as one could for example become friendly with - say - epic lizards, and then hang out there to bait people into PvP and have the lizards helping.

DM Ghost wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:01 pm

Rhifox wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:30 pm There will be checks against obvious abuses, like becoming friendly with a monster faction and then using that to rob all of their chests or freely assault the boss. That'll be a pretty quick route to undoing all the effort made to get friendly.

PvP concern also comes to mind here, as one could for example become friendly with - say - epic lizards, and then hang out there to bait people into PvP and have the lizards helping.

Well, gee, Mr. Ghost, just ruin all the fun even before we’ve lined up!!!

One of the greatest shortcomings is the lack of PCs ability to gain gains with NPC-monster factions. I’ve tried this time and time again, to get mobs to be interacted with on any level above an XP source, and here Factions could actually do it.

But if it is just seen as a toon for griefing, and not a reward for actual RP towards a specific end, I’d say the Staff best let Rhifox down gently now, before they waste any more of their precious time.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:30 pm This is meant to be 'gamed'. It is meant to be an activity, like other game activities such as adventuring and looting.

Yes, IC it's meant to be. OOC less so. I think mostly that's what some others pitch is about.

Example A: How often at times in the past have we witnessed more DM traffic to select groups, etc.

I think that's what some have some thoughts on in case of reoccurring events, which often happen over and over. And blatantly overlooked each time. I will still play either way on this server, but a guarantee that some characters will not get as much traffic due to DM regional focus on their own plots VS the groups and the community may be an issue. However, the DM limit on PM's for events may fix some of that. We shall have to wait and see.

I would argue that Karn of Hellstorm getting High Captain was largely due to that being changed from away from that issue and throwing others that way a bone after so long, I can't speak for them personally but in my perspective I can see that a thing after DM's had a large regional focus at Baldur's gate plots for Bauldur's Gate to be catered a bit more than others.

A half and half automated system for many regions to be more hands-off I think will help. Regardless if the intent was bias or not, it was very much overlooked for a long time in a timeline that other groups would have a harder time getting involved in some ways.

To be clear, I genuinely want a faction system too. The opportunities are so great and cool, so I would rather Rhifox explore this as much as she likes and then we can hash out the details eventually before it is released. It would be fantastic, in fact, to be able to have for example two NPC factions that are hostile towards one another but also towards the PCs.

I think the Schools of Magic in Sshamath would be great factions. As would the Llothites. Svirfs in Rockrun, maybe even the duergar of Clan Shieldbreaker. Sadly, can’t think one specific for Imaskari currently in game that makes sense.

This is just my thought.

Someone is trying to work really hard on a system that could be really interesting and also enhance peoples personal stories. DMs who may not know your character, this is an easy way to gauge how a local town mayor or guard might respond to your character based on this system for that DM. If you are a local hero or liked they may actually take your characters view into consideration. If you are a nobody, you will be treated as such, likely.

And for those trying to "game" the system - Aint that sort of what roleplay is? If someone wishes to dedicate their time/effort and roleplay towards gaining a reputation in a town, let them. It means they create roleplay and activity around a specific area in which others can also get involved in.

Either way, it is a system meant to enhance peoples roleplay or stories, which seems great to me.

Game on.

Dunno if this faction was listed, and it's not that impactful outside of potential DM events or mechanics for sailing -


Sailors of Baldur's Gate
Sailors of Roaringshore

(technically both have pirates but considering pirates are usually just opportunistic sailors who might or might not have a letter of marque, I think simply rolling them into "Sailors" works)

Most MMOs have a reputation system and is a great system to work towards a goal/reward other than gaining levels. Yes, there will be kinks that will need to be worked on, but that happens with every system. My only concern is that it is a project that needs a lot of work and can easily lead to dev burnout.

[sarcasm]I would only ask that if we get negative reputation with player factions we can farm them for gold and loot[/sarcasm]

[DM] Grinning Death wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:08 am Woof, I'm getting shades of Sundren here.

Are we talking NPC factions only?

Are we gonna have to keep on you about that nature faction store? I think there are a couple of players here that is still waiting lol.

Chuck D / BpB

chuck darwin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:30 pm

[DM] Grinning Death wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:08 am Woof, I'm getting shades of Sundren here.

Are we talking NPC factions only?

Are we gonna have to keep on you about that nature faction store? I think there are a couple of players here that is still waiting lol.

Chuck D / BpB

Nature faction store! Is it in yet!?