New\Returning player looking for build suggestions

[fedex]

Yes i tried with a couple others I found in the starting city but I believe they were way too high level to be interested into grinding some exp… anyways is there some discord or some social where maybe I could Orga some dungeon runs with other players?

[fedex]

I tried restart as a human wizard and it was surprisingly much easier… too bad I talk to wrong npc and got ported into starting area and now can’t port back until server reset dammit

[DM Ink]

My best advice for a first time character is go fighter, MaA, or Wisdom monk. Something that starts out with decent AC. Then go outside of Darius Co. and buy as much +HP gear as you can. Grab some healing potions from a basic gear vendor. This should make you sustainable enough to learn the environment and cease to instadeath everywhere you go. It gives you a bit more bend of walking on the wrong maps. Hope that helps!

[fedex]

My best advice for a first time character is go fighter, MaA, or Wisdom monk. Something that starts out with decent AC. Then go outside of Darius Co. and buy as much +HP gear as you can. Grab some healing potions from a basic gear vendor. This should make you sustainable enough to learn the environment and cease to instadeath everywhere you go. It gives you a bit more bend of walking on the wrong maps. Hope that helps!

Thank you for the advice but I found it easier somehow to go as a wiz, probably the fact I can summon mons to send in buffed as tanks so I can deal damage from afar helps a lot.

A question tho: not sure if you are expert in caster builds but i was playing with the test server for my build
it's going to be a 5 wiz 10 red wiz 8 archmage 7 blood magus

now if i take epic spell focus and i throw a lvl 9 spell (+3 DC), i have practiced spellcaster (full 30 caster levels), i have high arcana spellpower 1,2,3 (+3 DC), i have 10 levels of red wizard (+5 DC), i have blood component (+1 DC) and bloodseeking spell active (+2 DC), i should have a total DC of 44... but i tested and max i got as DC was 36 with my specialised class…

Are high arcana spellpower feats\red wizard spellcasting feat bugged?

[Hawke]

You will only gain +1 cl with your build with practiced spellcaster. There is a script that measures your current character level against your casting level. You won't be able to go over with that feat.

[Hawke]

Oh and high arcana from AM doesn't raise the DC of spells, it raises the Caster Level of the spell. So you don't get +3 DC to your spells, you get +1 DC ( well depends on your CL... ) if you have CL of 29, then yes you get +1 DC with those 3 feats. If you have a CL of 30, then only two High arcana is needed. And so forth to get the +1 DC.

Same thing holds true with red wizards level 2 ability Spell Power. It is Caster Level you gain, not DC. Up to 5 CL.

With AM and full CL you are looking at 38 CL or +3 dc total from those 2 classes based on those 2 abilities. Does not take into account intelligence bonuses, blood magus abilities, etc.


I'll just finish it off with the Blood Magus skills do not add DC, they add CL.

Using both abilities will net you +1 dc and a lot of people potentially trying to kill you. RP speaking that is.

So your max Caster Level will only be 41 or +4 DC to your spells. +5dc with Red wizard specialized school. Add in prodigy, intelligence bonus and spell level, it is still high.

29 DC in the one school and 28 in the others. That assumes +10 to intelligence. So a level 9 spell of your chosen school should be 38DC and other schools 37DC.

Hope that helps.

Yep I know my mages.

[fedex]

That was a wonderful explanation!
I read somewhere that practiced was not working as intended (not wanting to exploit it but would compensate auto quicken) I guess it had been fixed in here, so do you believe practiced and high arcana overlap, so one of the two it’s not gonna have a use in this build?
Do you think it’s worth to be at 37/38 DC at endgame or at that stage it’s not gonna be useful cause anything you encounter both in pve and pvp has crazy high saves?
I really thought having the highest caster levels would increase those DCs but if its just to determine damage of spells, and those being almost every time capped, I guess its useless (spell resistance aside)

[zhazz]

The Practised Caster feat has been fixed on this server. In the base game it adds +4 Caster Levels, ignoring the maximum from character levels. E.g. it is possible have a character that is level 29 Wizard / 1 Fighter, putting them at Caster Level 29, onto which Practised Caster will add +4 for a total of 33, when the maximum a level 30 Wizard would get is 30.

That has been fixed on this server, however, so the maximum Caster Level is 30. The only way to increase it beyond that is through classes and feats that are specifically designed to raise the Caster Level.

In terms of overcoming both resistances and saves the best combination is Archmage (wizards) or Hierophant (clerics) plus Shadow Adept, which will yield the following:

+1 DC from full Archmage/Hierophant.
+1 DC from full Shadow Adept Spellpower (All schools).
+2 DC just for being a Shadow Adept (Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy, and spells with the darkness descriptor).
+1 DC from Spellcasting Prodigy.
+3 DC from Epic Spell Focus (In Enchantment, Illusion, or Necromancy).
+12 DC from Wis/Int of 34 (buffed, with 5 Great Stats).
+4 DC from having 12 CLs above 20.

Those all stack for a +24 bonus to DC, which adds to the base of DC 10 for a total of DC 34.

Depending on the spell it's a DC of 35 to 43 for levels 1 to 9 respectively.

[fedex]

The Practised Caster feat has been fixed on this server. In the base game it adds +4 Caster Levels, ignoring the maximum from character levels. E.g. it is possible have a character that is level 29 Wizard / 1 Fighter, putting them at Caster Level 29, onto which Practised Caster will add +4 for a total of 33, when the maximum a level 30 Wizard would get is 30.

That has been fixed on this server, however, so the maximum Caster Level is 30. The only way to increase it beyond that is through classes and feats that are specifically designed to raise the Caster Level.

In terms of overcoming both resistances and saves the best combination is Archmage (wizards) or Hierophant (clerics) plus Shadow Adept, which will yield the following:

+1 DC from full Archmage/Hierophant.
+1 DC from full Shadow Adept Spellpower (All schools).
+2 DC just for being a Shadow Adept (Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy, and spells with the darkness descriptor).
+1 DC from Spellcasting Prodigy.
+3 DC from Epic Spell Focus (In Enchantment, Illusion, or Necromancy).
+12 DC from Wis/Int of 34 (buffed, with 5 Great Stats).
+4 DC from having 12 CLs above 20.

Those all stack for a +24 bonus to DC, which adds to the base of DC 10 for a total of DC 34.

Depending on the spell it's a DC of 35 to 43 for levels 1 to 9 respectively.

allright thank you! but what about red wizard?

[zhazz]

To answer that question I'll have to get a bit technical. Sorry


The maximum baseline Caster Level (CL) is 30 (includes Practiced Spellcaster adjustment for non-caster levels).

Red Wizard adds a total of +5 to the CL, for a total of 35.
Archmage adds a total of +3 to the CL, for a total of 33.
Shadow Adept adds a total of +3 to the CL, for a total of 33.

Regardless of replacing Archmage or Shadow Adept with Red Wizard, the combined total will still be a +8 to the CL, for a total of 38. While Archmage and Shadow Adept combined adds to a total of 36.

Every 3 CL above 20 adds +1 to the DC of spells cast.
This puts the Archmage + Shadow Adept combo to (35 - 20) / 3 = 5.3333, which rounds down to a +5 DC bonus.
Replacing either with Red Wizard puts the combo to (38 - 20) / 3 = 6, which equals a +6 DC bonus.

This all assumes maxing out each PrC to 10 for a 10 Wizard / 10 X / 10 Y split.

Other splits can be considered, but will not increase the final DC bonus, even though the total CL does increase.

E.g. 6 Wizard / 10 Red Wizard / 10 Shadow Adept / 4 Archmage:
+5 from Red Wizard
+3 from Shadow Adept
+2 from Archmage

This gives a +10 bonus to CL, putting it at 40. However, using the calculation for DC bonus (40 - 20) / 3 = 6.6666, which rounds down to 6, there is no actual increase in the DC bonus.

In the end we get the following for Red Wizard:

+5 CL from full Red Wizard specilization (Chosen school only).
+3 CL from full Shadow Adept (All schools).

---

+1 DC from Red Wizard specilization (Chosen school only).
+2 DC for Shadow Adept schools (Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy, and spells with the darkness descriptor).
+1 DC from Spellcasting Prodigy.
+3 DC from Epic Spell Focus (In Enchantment, Illusion, or Necromancy).
+12 DC from Wis/Int of 34 (buffed, with 5 Great Stats).
+6 DC from having 18 CLs (10 + 5 + 3) above 20.

Those all stack for a +25 bonus to DC, which adds to the base of DC 10 for a total of DC 35.

Depending on the spell it's a DC of 36 to 44 for levels 1 to 9 respectively.

However, this does require the Red Wizard specilization to be one matching with Shadow Adept (Enchantment, Illusion, or Necromancy). Out of which the best in terms of offenses will be Necromancy, many of which are considered evil, and thus will greenlight PvP against your character (on Duchal lands at least). Both Enchantment and Illusion have good spells too, but many of those are based on Will saves, rather than Fortitude, which does pose a problem on this server, since Will saves tend to be quite high for a lot of enemies. Even more so than Fortitude saves.

Shadow Adept can of course be replaced by Archmage to avoid such narrow options for Red Wizard specilization.

This will, however, drop the total DC by 2 points. Depending on your preferences in playstyle, character development, and roleplay, I'll suggest asking other players of Red Wizards what they've found to be work well for them. It may be that Shadow Adept, despite its potency, is not a good match for a Red Wizard character.

[fedex]

Wow awesome! Thank you again!
That was very vast and technical, looks like at the end current meta almost forces you to choose necromancy… I wonder how does necro behaves in both pvp and in pve respect an evoker… I guess high saves are a good problem and would deny basically the necromancer build, while evoker has to deal with halved damage (saves) and damage reduction… mmmh what a complicated choice

[zhazz]

Necromancy can be quite strong. The downside is the same as with nearly all Evocation spells. Namely that straight up damage is reduced to half on a save. Other Necromancy spells either debilitate the target in some fashion, or they seek to outright kill the target(s). Regardless of what form the Necromancy spell takes it is easily countered by Death Ward, which a lot of the "boss" monters in the game unfortunately have or can cast.

The real strength of Necromancy lies in the summons available, but for these the DC of the spells have little to offer.

That is not to say that it's impossible to create a "blaster" using Necromancy. Far from it. It just require more thought and planning to do. Such as using other schools of magic to strip away defenses or make the target vulnerable.

Where Evocation spells do offer some spells affording the target no save, such is sadly not true for Necromancy spells. Such spells are typically considered touch-attack spells, and can be highly effective. They do still require a touch-attack to hit, however, making it difficult to land blows with them against some of the tougher enemies. And even worse, a good portion of them require melee range. Even worse for Red Wizards is that chosing Evocation locks out Conjuration, which is where most of the good support and defensive spells come from.

It is for these reasons that summoner builds are so popular. Let a minion do all the work after you buff them up.

That being said, I do think the Red Wizard + Shadow Adept can be quite powerful with its assortment of Enchantment and Illusion spells. These are better suited to group play, however, as they rely on controlling and disabling enemies. It can likely work solo too, but the damage output of a wizard against a paralyzed target is never going to be very high. Not to mention that the wizard's arsenal will run out quickly when using touch-attack spells. Feats are of course available to grant Reserve Spells, which have no casting limit per day, and may be an option for such a style of play.

As I said previously your best option is to contact some Red Wizard players, and ask for their insight. That or resort to using minions, or grouping a lot with other players — some of whom may try to kill you the moment you cast the wrong spell, or they learn you are a Red Wizard / Shadow Adept, which their character will attack on sight for RP reasons.

[fedex]

Necromancy can be quite strong. The downside is the same as with nearly all Evocation spells. Namely that straight up damage is reduced to half on a save. Other Necromancy spells either debilitate the target in some fashion, or they seek to outright kill the target(s). Regardless of what form the Necromancy spell takes it is easily countered by Death Ward, which a lot of the "boss" monters in the game unfortunately have or can cast.

The real strength of Necromancy lies in the summons available, but for these the DC of the spells have little to offer.

That is not to say that it's impossible to create a "blaster" using Necromancy. Far from it. It just require more thought and planning to do. Such as using other schools of magic to strip away defenses or make the target vulnerable.

Where Evocation spells do offer some spells affording the target no save, such is sadly not true for Necromancy spells. Such spells are typically considered touch-attack spells, and can be highly effective. They do still require a touch-attack to hit, however, making it difficult to land blows with them against some of the tougher enemies. And even worse, a good portion of them require melee range. Even worse for Red Wizards is that chosing Evocation locks out Conjuration, which is where most of the good support and defensive spells come from.

It is for these reasons that summoner builds are so popular. Let a minion do all the work after you buff them up.

That being said, I do think the Red Wizard + Shadow Adept can be quite powerful with its assortment of Enchantment and Illusion spells. These are better suited to group play, however, as they rely on controlling and disabling enemies. It can likely work solo too, but the damage output of a wizard against a paralyzed target is never going to be very high. Not to mention that the wizard's arsenal will run out quickly when using touch-attack spells. Feats are of course available to grant Reserve Spells, which have no casting limit per day, and may be an option for such a style of play.

As I said previously your best option is to contact some Red Wizard players, and ask for their insight. That or resort to using minions, or grouping a lot with other players — some of whom may try to kill you the moment you cast the wrong spell, or they learn you are a Red Wizard / Shadow Adept, which their character will attack on sight for RP reasons.

could death ward be mord'd away on those bosses? else vampiric feast i guess... but not sure if it would get full DC

[zhazz]

It could yes. Though some will have it as an innate immunity, which cannot be bypassed. Some by the nature of their monsters type (undead, constructs, oozes?), and others for sake of balance (I think the Balor at least is immune to all save-or-die spells, but can still be hit with Enervate and similar).

[fedex]

It could yes. Though some will have it as an innate immunity, which cannot be bypassed. Some by the nature of their monsters type (undead, constructs, oozes?), and others for sake of balance (I think the Balor at least is immune to all save-or-die spells, but can still be hit with Enervate and similar).

i tested around a bit of stuff about enchantment and illusion,
i found out that hiss of sleep + phantasmal killer it's a great thing
i didn't found out how does the spell Weird work... it's really random sometimes it won't trigger saves but kill, sometimes it would just do nothing, sometimes it triggers the 2 saves... also i don't get why a RW10 SA10 ARCH 5 with 2 high arcana, if specialized in necro has a DC of 44 for wail of the banshee but if i specialize it into illusion\enchantment and i cast weird it only checks (when it doesnt bug out) for a difficulty of 39