Spawn Rates

[[DM] Grinning Death]

It was not discussed by the team as a whole because it was deemed a small decision. Spawn rates have been changed in the past without anyone batting an eyelid, including more severe nerfs than these ones.

First I'll remind you we're talking about 4 areas whose spawning parameters were reduced (and 5 who were raised) in a server that has more than 90 combat areas. Secondly the nerfed areas didn't suddenly become unplayable or awful. Save for the wyvern map where the changes were large (proportionally to its overuse) I would have been surprised if anyone actually noticed a change happened if the commit message had not been completely explicit and transparent.

Thirdly this is a work in progress, the goal, if it was not clear, is to promote usage of all areas and not just a couple of XP cows. The expected XP rate should be a very small factor to consider when picking an area to kill monsters and for that they need to be comparable across areas of similar CRs.

Last thing adjusting spawn rate is indeed one possible parameter and there are others, sometimes more suitable depending on areas, they're on the table to be tweaked as well but we'll see what happens after these changes first.

Dinamically change respawn rate as well as CR scaling at random, on a weekly base, for different areas?
PCs looking for exp runs will have each week to find the area which has the high spawn rate. the week after that changes and they will have to find the new area and deal with different content

That's actually a fun idea that the DM team could work plots into.

[404ninja]

The path from Baldur's Gate to Nashkel is a fairly positive experience for players along a very logical path for the people playing. You have social hubs with maps that you can adventure on between them that also have dungeons connected to those travel maps. Up until Bergost each travel map has at least 2 dungeons per travel space providing a varied experience along the way as players level up. Each social hub also has its own adventure spaces tied to them as content to experience before you brave the road further south. Unfortunately, the road from Bergost to Nashkel has a quarter of the useable content compared to previous areas which lends to players repeating these two areas. While the content itself has its own issues the reduction in areas of play that depart from previous areas gives a shallower experience than before. There is a distinct drought in this natural progression before returning to a slightly more positive experience beyond Nashkel.

The content between bergost and Nashkel has a slew of issues. While there are attached dungeons, they are small or just fluff spaces which is fine but they don't provide the progression of characters like earlier maps. One of the attached maps is also a map that is vastly over level for characters that have made it to that point and not an option. The spaces themselves, wyverns and Xvarts also have a consistent experience that is easily repeatable where the XP curve for 3.5 dnd starts to slow down. While there are other maps on the server at a similar level as these spaces they are neither as consistent experience nor close to them. With those areas not being nearby the natural progression and two practical options being so easy to farm it makes sense as to why the user experience is so weighted there.

Essentially, the Xvarts and Wyverns need to be replaced with healthier gameplay maps and content should be added closer to them if you wish for people to not use those two spaces alone to progress through the expected character levels.

[thepaganking]

I wanted to provide some in-game context to this conversation.

First, let me state that I always thought that some areas, such as the Wyverns and Troll Cave, were created for fighter types or casters with low caster level to be able to survive and get some XP without dying due to dispel, death spells, stun, and such. Perhaps I am wrong with that assumption. However, I was always thankful for having low magic areas as they are beneficial to many builds that take a long time to come into power or need those extra feats to take iron will or get class feats that provides increases in saves and such.

I wanted to provide some examples of why I think many people avoid many areas on the server. I believe many people do not go to the other areas on the server as much as Wyverns and Trolls - magic. Let me give you some examples, one just happened to me and two were a bit ago.
a. I have a 19th level Bladesinger - 18th level caster with practiced spellcaster. I was in the elder ogres to check the spawn rate and get some XP. I hit three Ogre Mages in a row, who collectively dispelled me of most of my buffs, basically rendering me a very weak fighter.
b. I had an 18th level duelist. High AC, high AB, survivable in a lot of situations, especially Wyverns. I go to the Elder Ogre caves and gets hit with a stun spell. He dies because it lasts for over five minutes, all the while he is being pummeled by the Ogre Mage that cast it.
c. I have a 21st level druid - tries to head to the black dragon, doesn't get very far because he is hit by at least 15 dispels and neve makes it.

Just saying that there is probably a reason, as stated by other people posting, why people avoid certain areas.

TPK.

[Theodore01]

We (4 players) did ziggurat today - spawn rate and encounter density was awfully low.

All these long empty corridors within each only 1-2 spawns.

THAT LOCATION WAS WAY MORE INTERESTING BEFORE THE CHANGE !

[Grendunor]

You want to cut Spawn rates then have mobs award exp appropriate to the CL of the creature you just killed, If you have an ECL and a multi class penalty volume grinding is basically the only effective way to level outside of campfire social RP on any meaningful time frame.

I've said this thing before and I'll say it here for the last time.

Dear Dev team,

Stop making changes that detract from the players and make this ancient obtuse game slower. Stop making changes that make Characters feel less heroic, stop complaining about powerbuilds when you design content that REQUIRES a powerbuild or team of powerbuilds to clear and turn a profit.

Nwn2 is a buggy PoS and we're all here in spite of that because there is no other medium out there for RP that even comes close to persistent worlds like ours. Eventually this community is going to die out, unless someone here understand that we need new blood coming in and we need to RETAIN that new blood.

Moving the goalpost to make leveling more of a chore is not the way to do that. Cite Pen and paper all you want at the end of the day Nwn2 is not your Pnp campaign stop trying to make it that and start thinking, and talking with the admins and DM's about what the collective design philosophy is. What behaviour are you going to reward and how you'd like people to engage with the content.

OP made a point worth repeating. BG right now has a variety of players both RP focused and grind focused and inbetween. If you make changes that shit in the shoes of two thirds of the population you're going to lose more people than you keep.


TL;DR: Stop Nerfing shit, if people don't go to certain zones it's likely because those zones are dog dump and should be readdressed. Unduck your design philosophy of if everything is trash it's balanced. Bez Jaj Malaka.

[DaloLorn]

We (4 players) did ziggurat today - spawn rate and encounter density was awfully low.

All these long empty corridors within each only 1-2 spawns.

THAT LOCATION WAS WAY MORE INTERESTING BEFORE THE CHANGE !

That's a non-sequitur. Vale didn't touch that map at all in the recent updates.

[MrSmith]

Dear Dev team,

Stop making changes that detract from the players and make this ancient obtuse game slower. Stop making changes that make Characters feel less heroic, stop complaining about powerbuilds when you design content that REQUIRES a powerbuild or team of powerbuilds to clear and turn a profit.

Nwn2 is a buggy PoS and we're all here in spite of that because there is no other medium out there for RP that even comes close to persistent worlds like ours. Eventually this community is going to die out, unless someone here understand that we need new blood coming in and we need to RETAIN that new blood.

Moving the goalpost to make leveling more of a chore is not the way to do that. Cite Pen and paper all you want at the end of the day Nwn2 is not your Pnp campaign stop trying to make it that and start thinking, and talking with the admins and DM's about what the collective design philosophy is. What behaviour are you going to reward and how you'd like people to engage with the content.

OP made a point worth repeating. BG right now has a variety of players both RP focused and grind focused and inbetween. If you make changes that (#2) in the shoes of two thirds of the population you're going to lose more people than you keep.


TL;DR: Stop Nerfing (#2), if people don't go to certain zones it's likely because those zones are dog dump and should be readdressed. Unduck your design philosophy of if everything is trash it's balanced. Bez Jaj Malaka.

Well said.

[Theodore01]

We (4 players) did ziggurat today - spawn rate and encounter density was awfully low.

All these long empty corridors within each only 1-2 spawns.

THAT LOCATION WAS WAY MORE INTERESTING BEFORE THE CHANGE !

That's a non-sequitur. Vale didn't touch that map at all in the recent updates.

The up-scaleing spawns got disabled also - maybe that's the cause. But there were much more spawns before the update.

[Valefort]

Map wasn't touched and scaling has nothing to do with spawn rates so no, monsters were probably spawned out of your path.

[gedweyignasia]

Please give feedback on changes, not on change notes. It discourages this level of transparency to get so much pushback on features players haven't even tried, and to have players complain about this change affecting things that weren't touched.

Play the game, tell us about your experience. We are interested in your feelings, but we'd hope those feelings are from engaging with the content instead of reading about it.

[Blaze]

I tried the High Moors trolls, you need a party to actually do it, you need a strong party I'll add.

The spawns are slow and if you find elementals and necromancers you are forced to use consumables or die.

It is currently a dungeon that I would avoid in every respect.


Ogre Stronghold is not worth after level 20, not enough spawns and XP/kill with or without a party.


Troll Claws - Cave is dead, no more spawns, no more bosses (missing the towering yellow one ç_ç), just another useless dungeon now.


I have come to the point of abandoning my level 21 for lack of dungeons capable of giving an adequate reward based on the effort done. You have to do unimaginable calculations to find a suitable area for a party, knowing OOCly their level in order to guarantee everyone to have some XP, the epic dungeons are not made to level, but to offer an experience that gives at the end of the dungeon chests to open and eventually some loot (although not adequate for the effort, just read the loot thread).

[VDub]

Please give feedback on changes, not on change notes. It discourages this level of transparency to get so much pushback on features players haven't even tried, and to have players complain about this change affecting things that weren't touched.

Play the game, tell us about your experience. We are interested in your feelings, but we'd hope those feelings are from engaging with the content instead of reading about it.

We'd also like if those changes were made by staff that actually plays the game.

[gedweyignasia]

We'd also like if those changes were made by staff that actually plays the game.

Applications are open to anyone who wants to contribute.

[VDub]

We'd also like if those changes were made by staff that actually plays the game.

Applications are open to anyone who wants to contribute.

Sure, just keep hacking at it until it's dead. Be the running staff that killed it.

[Blaze]

My request is this one.

Bringing the fun back to different playestyles!

Hidden: show

and stop imposing a playstyle that does not reflect that of your playerbase