Guild Stagnation

[Almarea90]

Imho the problem doesn't really reside in old characters persisting for years but rather in the attitude those characters have towards plots. Old characters can be good for RP, as they provide consistency and immersion. I personally find more believable when you go to a place and find someone who says "Eh I've been working here for 10 years" rather than "oh yes I've been there for one month, the one before me for two weeks, and before then I have no idea". NPCs like Khalso or Captain Norton have been there for ages and are quite atmospheric, same for the historic characters, who unlike the NPC one can interact with and learn from.

The problem arises when the old characters suck the air out of new ones.
Often new characters, especially if the player is new, would go to established guilds or characters with plot items or plot hooks. What I try to do rather than taking the McGuffin and solving the plot myself is providing advice and support that player's involvement with historic information that I have access to as an old character, then give the guy a pat on the shoulder and say "Mate, do what you see fit with this info".

Rather than deleting the old character altogether, it would be probably better if such characters played a role of questgivers, advisors and "historical memory", so that the spotlight isn't taken from the new people but at the same time they have some guidance and aren't completely lost.

[Steve]

And why I think it is sometimes good for long-time PCs to become NPCs. I saw this happen with my non-IG Character Grimnail, who is now the Chief of Uruk Lurra.

Yes, "big spotlight" long-time invested PCs can get in the way. That is actually a player problem.

And is also what causes guild stagnation in the second place. The first being that players just "die off" from BGTSCC, for one reason or another. Which is fine! Which is Real Life!

But like I said before, if old timer PLAYERS also renewed themselves by starting in and along groups from the Level 1 up experience, and seeing the BGTSCC Server as a Campaign that can be run again and again from different Character perspectives, I'd bet money there would be less disparity when it comes to Character leveling interaction.

Because again, this isn't about lack of interaction, it is about lack of being able to Level up together.

[blazerules]

I will admit that I make most of my IC friends in the journey to level up. It's the best experience that forges strong bonds. Hell's people I leveled with in 2017 are people I still talk to today.

But I also have infinitely less time these days. 1 hour of free time a day on average. So I just dont have time to level or even RP all that much sometimes. Granted I also play my character as a semi-NPC if that makes sense.

I do think dropping the level limitations on parties would be an overall good thing though. I... dont think itd be much of an issue these days? People who would use it to power level are regulars who power level anyways. People who dont? They may never become regulars because it can be difficult, frustrating and frankly really boring to level alone. More harm than good basically.

If I could jump in and show some newbie around cool dungeons, help them out as a "grizzled adventurer" showing the novice the ropes thatd be great and there is a decent amount of both learning the game, setting and just RP in that.

So far I just parry and let monsters beat on me as the partie of Lowbies kills them.

[Tanlaus]

Conversely you could argue that dropping the xp limits means there will be less chance to experience the journey of leveling up with anyone. Particularly when older players can just hook up with their level 30 buds to power level a new build leaving brand new players with even less people to journey with.

I think it’s pretty fair to say that most people will always pick the path of least resistance when it comes to leveling. As evidenced by the furor over the wyvren/xvarts changes.

[GholaMan]

Basically, guilds will stagnate due to only a few reasons. One, no new players. Which is a problem for NWN2 in general since we are not getting new people, just loosing ones that get tired of the game. Two, lack of interaction and RP with guildmates. And three lack of advertisement, which this last one I am guilty of. I do primarily play in the UD with a very limited player base which when you are RPing with the same five or so people then the first issue really shows how much of a problem this is.

So really I personally think the best solution is to just get more people to try NWN2, sell it as a RP game where you make connections with other people. Although outside of that I am not really sure how to get more people to just play the game and stick with it for a long enough time to RP consistantly.

[Steve]

Another reason guilds stagnate is because it’s simply easier and much, much, much faster for a player to gain concrete rewards through solo/non-affiliated actions/role-play.

I know Planehopper can attest to this issue, because of how much he and his guild works and has worked through guild RP to affect the landscape of the Server, and to this day, continues to get blowback and see their efforts stifled.

What I’m saying is: guilds, or at least all-but-the-favored ones, usually end up achieving little to nothing on BGTSCC, unless said guild has a dev/builder within or a once-member-now-DM is active.

Think guilds, factions, groups, the classes D&D party is are great, and the absolute best way to experience the game, both plain D&D and the BGTSCC version. But I’ve also seen more guilds crash and burn on BGTSCC than I can count.

I’d argue that for the majority of players on BGTSCC, they have only a few short hours per week to actually game. They might love to join a guild, but the time investment one needs to see a guild shine, to lead a guild through YEARS of RP only to achieve often too little, is beyond the capability of most.

If this Server wants to gain new players and retain players who are tired of trying and failing, the Server culture needs to change and show that far more is possible, in terms of affecting the landscape, by the player, AND especially through guild RP. I’ve been told multiple times recently that other Servers, namely TRoN, is far more accommodating to changes influenced by player RP. And though I’ve been invited to over there, I’m
personally far more invested in BGTSCC—for good and bad… —and wish to see the environment here change, for the better.

To wrap it up, I believe guilds would stagnate less if it was known and possible for guilds to have a greater affect on the environment and Story, than they do now. AND that this is made very clearly apparent, promoted and supported across the board, for ALL guilds (which does mean it has to stop that too subjective decisions for which guild succeeds and which doesn’t, has to stop).

And I’m talking about more affect than just a Guild Hall. And then a single guild leader driving the storyline.

[Józef Taktyka]

Guild stagnation is one thing but as a new player I've noticed that not much is going on for the rest of players. I mean events and quests from DMs. So far I've seen no announcements of upcoming global events. I haven't seen any spontaneous DM activity like taking control of an NPC and talking to PCs or making a tiny event/quest (but it could be simply my bad luck). Simply take a look at the Dungeon Master Realms section of the forum. No new updates since April except for Honk and Bones resignations.
I guess it's because they're busy running quest and events for... guilds? Or there is no actual plan for server plot apart from simple „We have ToT and magic went crazy... now, who wants another coffee?”


Yes, players should organize themselves most of the time to roleplay but it’s DMs who push the plot and the world forward. As I travelled from BG to Beregost I saw signs of once great moments or players. List of heroes displayed next to the main entrance to FAI tavern that defeated Bhallists. Monument of liberty in Beregost. A player tomb right outside FAI walls.

Sorry if this post sounds negative but that’s how I see it right now.

[JIŘÍ]

Another reason guilds stagnate is because it’s simply easier and much, much, much faster for a player to gain concrete rewards through solo/non-affiliated actions/role-play.

I know Planehopper can attest to this issue, because of how much he and his guild works and has worked through guild RP to affect the landscape of the Server, and to this day, continues to get blowback and see their efforts stifled.

What I’m saying is: guilds, or at least all-but-the-favored ones, usually end up achieving little to nothing on BGTSCC, unless said guild has a dev/builder within or a once-member-now-DM is active.

Think guilds, factions, groups, the classes D&D party is are great, and the absolute best way to experience the game, both plain D&D and the BGTSCC version. But I’ve also seen more guilds crash and burn on BGTSCC than I can count.

I’d argue that for the majority of players on BGTSCC, they have only a few short hours per week to actually game. They might love to join a guild, but the time investment one needs to see a guild shine, to lead a guild through YEARS of RP only to achieve often too little, is beyond the capability of most.

If this Server wants to gain new players and retain players who are tired of trying and failing, the Server culture needs to change and show that far more is possible, in terms of affecting the landscape, by the player, AND especially through guild RP. I’ve been told multiple times recently that other Servers, namely TRoN, is far more accommodating to changes influenced by player RP. And though I’ve been invited to over there, I’m
personally far more invested in BGTSCC—for good and bad… —and wish to see the environment here change, for the better.

To wrap it up, I believe guilds would stagnate less if it was known and possible for guilds to have a greater affect on the environment and Story, than they do now. AND that this is made very clearly apparent, promoted and supported across the board, for ALL guilds (which does mean it has to stop that too subjective decisions for which guild succeeds and which doesn’t, has to stop).

And I’m talking about more affect than just a Guild Hall. And then a single guild leader driving the storyline.

i think the main reason for that is lack of player agenda. If you want to play a faction or guild having a place to organise is necessary but you need months and months developing it just to get that.

This is outcome of need to build customised guildhouses, so even if you lack a builder in the end you are doomed. Having pre made guldhouses in each area/town that would be more or less generic for people to pick up and organise around would help a bit. It would also remove weight from shoulders of the team to approve/build it (once put in game).

That would come with need to prevent hugging faction places with inactive characters, but honestly how many guilds are more or less inactive and still keep their stuff?

Adding fixable ffeatures like already are Ig (altars and stuff) that would persist resets would allow people to decorate and customize the estates to their liking and theme.

Factions could come and go, mostly without DMs supervision (unless they dive into the plot). Maybe people would not cling so much to old Pcs even, if they knew they don't need to pull off so much work to get a chair in a house for their guild. Becuase if you spent so much time working for it, what motivates you to ditch the pc and begin anew?

[Steve]

Having pre made guldhouses in each area/town that would be more or less generic for people to pick up and organise around would help a bit. It would also remove weight from shoulders of the team to approve/build it (once put in game).

This is an interesting suggestion. Though, personally, I use and have used existing taverns for this, since they are also almost always empty.

[blazerules]

And I’m talking about more affect than just a Guild Hall. And then a single guild leader driving the storyline.

Yeah the #1 thing that appeals to me with RP games that nothing else can ever possibly even remotely challenge is simple.

My ability to effect/change the world.

Due to the innate fact that in an RP game there are DMs/Staff who can reflect your actions, as opposed to a singleplayer game or anything else where its scripted changes, it's something that's practically unique to RP stuff. You make your own story and one that leaves a mark.

It's also why it's always beyond discouraging when you can't impact any change.

Whole point of guilds, feels to me, is that a large body of players working together can more strongly impact the world.


I do feel like 1 guild/guild leader driving the story is more of a player issue for sure. But also just falls in line with how such things go, one person will typically push for things to happen and coordinate a ton of things. But if multiple people are all putting in the same effort yeah. Should be more than 1. Little Lords Alliance for player guilds? Hard to say but you'd need something to tie guilds together to avoid/fix that sort of problem.

At the same time it is a ton of work and time that most people can't put in. Boy I know I have absolutely no time for guild leader work even if I desperately wanted it. Wonder how you'd balance that out... but something should probably be thought of because to me it feels like we should grab ahold of all the new players we get as if they were blue diamonds.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Guilds currently do form some sort of an alliance, group function with other guilds, even when other guilds don't want them to have it.

[klinx]

Maybe some faction or guild conflict needs to occur. It would spice things up and I'm sure get other guilds and factions involved. Ideas would be rival factions muscling in on territory (taking over old guild halls) or each city would have a faction/guild that "claims" it. Example: Ulgoths Beard :: main faction: Red Monkey Rum Runners. They would gain access to the guild vendor which would offer different things depending on city and RP. It wouldn't make sense for a band of brigands to offer clerical gear and prayer beads in their turf
Idea.

Just an idea, I'll think on it more.

[blazerules]

Would make no sense for most guilds to compete if I'm entirely honest.

I can see merc companies, or merchants, competing but they tend to stick to their own areas and don't overlap as far as I am aware.

[selhan]

Who needs a guild?! Just find a job and make the magic happen!

[klinx]

Would make no sense for most guilds to compete if I'm entirely honest.

I can see merc companies, or merchants, competing but they tend to stick to their own areas and don't overlap as far as I am aware.

Good point