Underdark General Discussion Thread

[DM Wretch]

If you've read my rumors sections, the Lollthite activities have heightened greatly recently. . . this much is true. But all in all, the Conclave simply holds more power than the Lollthites do. I've created a few incursions here and there, but they're all minor and under ground, and not over the top. Most of the lollthites are not even fighting amongst the conclave, they're more or less publicly praising the presence of Lollth, performing more 'illegal' activities in her name. . . and doing/planning more surface raids.

I would like to see more people fear Lollth in roleplay, though. Drow , regardless of being Conclave members, wizards, or what have you, live lives of constant fear that something is going to oust them or out power them ( see the 3.5 books on drow/underdark ffor more info) but their pride also allow them to hide this and would never actually show it..

That being said... they fear lollth. Every single Drow should be utterly horrified and scared of Lollth deep within their hearts.... Lore wise, Lollth is the number one god in the Underdark to the Drow, all others are regarded as secondary or nothing. ((You can find the PDF files on Drow if you disagree. I'm going by 3.5 ideas here, which I've researched recently ) The conclave hold the mast majority of power in the city, and yes, they could remove any religious institution in their city. . but they doing so would seem rather foolhardy to me. Why would you risk the wrath of your matron?

It's kind of like . . . A government that allows a religious institution. If they remove the religion from existence, a large amount of the populace (and in d and d, perhaps the goddess herself) would be very cross / angry. . they wouldn't want all the Loyal Lollthites causing problems in Sshamath, would they?

So Sshamath is not dubbed a Lollthite city. It's a trade city with no particular bans on any religion that I have seen.. though you may not want to be too open publically announcing you worship any certain Female Drow Deities that are not Lollth >_>; As there are currently assassins running around killing those ones. ((see my events))

Example from another video game: What happens in skyrim when the Empire / Thalmor try to ban worship of Talos? Those loyal to Talos rebel and plummet the country into Chaos. It could work here too.

As for Drow coming from other cities... the entire Drow world and society revolves around females being leaders.... If foreign females come to Sshamath from other drow cities and demand those to respect them because they are not mere Jaluk, then I see no problem with that. Most of Drow society is matriarchal / run by women and I even think the conclave would still be rather respectful to high ranking females from other societies, though they may not do whatever the female would want . Sshamath is just like . . . that little edge of society that does things a little different. Like Sparta or something. So I fully expect Drow that come from far off cities to live in Sshamath to utterly hate the system and do things to others that may upset the balance a bit. Makes for good roleplay anyways

[Ender]

Would love to see under dark have as many cities as the surface

[Nyeleni]

Yes, does my Svirf have a possibility of a non drow home? I would love to have a svirf community down there.

[Rainbow Prism]

DM Wretch, with all due respect, patriarchy is prevalent in city as result of history that deposed the whole system based on religion. In fact, Houses are no longer ruled by matrons and have as much influence as commoners. That means, those who call themselves Matron Mothers are just pretenders or delusional.

[Ender]

Any self proclaimed matron mothers being disrepectful will be warned, once. Sshamath is unique and isn't like the rest of the drow society. If we add more underdark cities I know I would certainly be expected to act like the local males.

[Ender]

I couldn't go to menzobarren and act like I do in Sshamath, it would be suicide, the same can be said about "matrons" in Sshamath. Of course there is always people against the grain and that is great! Keeps it interesting but there are consequences to those actions.

[DM Wretch]

DM Wretch, with all due respect, patriarchy is prevalent in city as result of history that deposed the whole system based on religion. In fact, Houses are no longer ruled by matrons and have as much influence as commoners. That means, those who call themselves Matron Mothers are just pretenders or delusional.

Lorewise, Sshamath has "marginalized" religion, if you read the Underdark book. They scoff at it. There are also no noble houses that directly live within Sshamath, making it an oddballl city indeed.

But if you came from some other Underdark city and entered Sshamath, believe me, you'd have a hard time. I like those Drow who try to adjust and act the way society outside , the majority of their society, would have them act. And virtually all Drow males I have come across properly respect those females around them (even those of lower levels, thank you for not metagaming) . No noble houses,yes perhaps, but I'd say that they still know drow women are powerful for a reason.

Also, game lore wise. . . the Lollthite players DO need some sort of place to be at. And we do bend the lore every now and then if it promotes good roleplay. I'd say that Sshamath has been represented fairly well, as many Drow PC already don't follow Lollth.... (though they should be scared to death about her) Having the Underdark without any Lollth action . . that's like a pickled herring sandwich without the bread, or something like that. So unless another drow city comes along , I think ssshamath as the way it is fine. .. just need some more drama between outsiders to come along.

[Akkori]

DM Wretch, with all due respect, patriarchy is prevalent in city as result of history that deposed the whole system based on religion. In fact, Houses are no longer ruled by matrons and have as much influence as commoners. That means, those who call themselves Matron Mothers are just pretenders or delusional.

Lorewise, Sshamath has "marginalized" religion, if you read the Underdark book. They scoff at it. There are also no noble houses that directly live within Sshamath, making it an oddballl city indeed.

But if you came from some other Underdark city and entered Sshamath, believe me, you'd have a hard time. I like those Drow who try to adjust and act the way society outside , the majority of their society, would have them act. And virtually all Drow males I have come across properly respect those females around them (even those of lower levels, thank you for not metagaming) . No noble houses,yes perhaps, but I'd say that they still know drow women are powerful for a reason.

Also, game lore wise. . . the Lollthite players DO need some sort of place to be at. And we do bend the lore every now and then if it promotes good roleplay. I'd say that Sshamath has been represented fairly well, as many Drow PC already don't follow Lollth.... (though they should be scared to death about her) Having the Underdark without any Lollth action . . that's like a pickled herring sandwich without the bread, or something like that. So unless another drow city comes along , I think ssshamath as the way it is fine. .. just need some more drama between outsiders to come along.

This is exactly how I've been rping on one of my charries (transplant from Ched Nasad). He's incredibly respectful of females, regardless of level, and mind boggled by how the city of Sshamath is run, to the point of wanting to choose a new city in fact. The idea that there are no matrons and on any given day you can see surfacers strolling through the city streets to shop is just crazy.

Sshamath is one of a kind.. that's for sure. It shouldn't be rp'd as though it's the status quo when it's certainly far from. I'd imagine even those that were born in Sshamath would understand how... unique it is.

[Rasael]

S'shamath is unique, but it has its own philosophy or ideology to rival that of its neighbours. This ideology focusses on Arcane progress and might, in the spirit of ancient Netheril. And it has kept the City powerfull and indepdendent from Lolthite rule.

So while its inhabitants would almost naturally know of other Drow Cities and the difference in culture, that does not mean they are inclined to imitate foreign habits. Power deserves respect ofcourse, and no Drow would lightly make powerfull enemies until he's sure he can beat them. So a modicum of respect to foreigners is to be expected. And also to religion ofcourse, which entitles some females to displays of (faked?) extravagant respect.

But that does not mean that the Drow of S'shamath don't believe their own way of life and ideals are superior. It actually stands to reason that they'd be well aware how much harsher and repressed their fate would likely be in regular Drow society. Especially the males. (females aren't repressed in S'shamath however, they are equals) S'shamath is comparatively a liberal playground full of progress, waxing power and advancement. You could probably make a good argument for calling it the City of oppertunities to Drow from other Cities. Many mages have defected and fled there, but ordinary Drow are often happy to go there as well - to get away from murderous Matrons or stiffling class hierarchy.

To the Drow of S'shamath, the City is the status quo. And to many it is also the way other Drow cities should be.

[Empoweredfan]

I think the server development of Sshamath is going very well actually. And the temple's growing influence is a great plot development. . . but, and this might sound childish, seeing as my Drow is a follower of Eilistraee. . . I think that the persecution of the sect takes a bigger priority than it perhaps should.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that they shouldn't follow up and hunt them, only that as an opponent, it really is just like kicking a puppy. Not much the puppy can do back at you, so to speak. Again, I'm not saying that the occasional murder of a follower of Eilistraee shouldn't happen, just that the NPC death toll is getting rather high for such a small sect.

What I would like to see more of though, is conclave involvement, because no matter how much you twist and turn on it all, they are the final say in the city. And seeing as they are Drow, the growing influence of the temple, and increase in open violence in the spider queens name should be cause for concern for those in power. It might just slip out of their hands if they don't do something to right it.

Why not use the persecution to have the Conclave gain some political ground back from the temple. Since last I saw, there were more Clerics of Lolth active, why not give the PCs a little nudge, just to remind people of who's in charge. =)

It would cause some good tension.

[Darksider_war]

Why not use the persecution to have the Conclave gain some political ground back from the temple. Since last I saw, there were more Clerics of Lolth active, why not give the PCs a little nudge, just to remind people of who's in charge. =)

where did you see them, if I may ask? Only divine caster (not necessarily cleric) of Lolth down there is Valaklith, more or less. Everyone else is either gone or long dormant.

Also, despite the fact that "kicking a puppy" may seem just too much, if said eilistreeans are caught dealing with the enemies of Lolth during an event, there isn't much that can be done with them, save perhaps a good old fashioned slaughter in the name of the Spider Queen.

What I would like to see more of though, is conclave involvement, because no matter how much you twist and turn on it all, they are the final say in the city

without delving too much into detail, I assure you that the Conclave is far from uninvolved with all the recent mess, at least judging from what I have gathered in one of Wretch's events.

Lorewise, Sshamath has "marginalized" religion, if you read the Underdark book. They scoff at it. There are also no noble houses that directly live within Sshamath, making it an oddballl city indeed.

But if you came from some other Underdark city and entered Sshamath, believe me, you'd have a hard time. I like those Drow who try to adjust and act the way society outside , the majority of their society, would have them act. And virtually all Drow males I have come across properly respect those females around them (even those of lower levels, thank you for not metagaming) . No noble houses,yes perhaps, but I'd say that they still know drow women are powerful for a reason.

Also, game lore wise. . . the Lollthite players DO need some sort of place to be at. And we do bend the lore every now and then if it promotes good roleplay. I'd say that Sshamath has been represented fairly well, as many Drow PC already don't follow Lollth.... (though they should be scared to death about her) Having the Underdark without any Lollth action . . that's like a pickled herring sandwich without the bread, or something like that. So unless another drow city comes along , I think ssshamath as the way it is fine. .. just need some more drama between outsiders to come along.

The problem with most Ud players is that they seem to be completely unaware (or don't care) about the fact that Lolth is one of me meanest (if not THE meanest) bitches around. She is fully capable of sending against you hordes of demons, assassins, and any other atrocity imaginable if you piss her too much (sometimes, she's capable of doing that even if you DON'T piss her off), reason for which she is feared by every sane minded drow, as Wretch has said.

And even those that do not follow her, do not like her, or even oppose her (Vhaerunites, for example) do their best to do so whilst hidden. This also happens to be the main reason for Lolth's followers being unafraid of death or torture.

It is the same basic principle employed by the CCCP during the second world war by deploying commissars behind their soldiers to "restore morale". If you have to face something really scary, having something even scarier behind you is always a good incentive.

Small edit: according to the book of gods and demigods, Lolth is powerful enough to know about just ANY drow-related event, if it involves at least 500 drows, and by pronouncing her name or one of her titles, you draw her attention enough to allow her to hear perfectly the next 9 words pronounced after her naming.

Tough luck!

[Moridin]

where did you see them, if I may ask? Only divine caster (not necessarily cleric) of Lolth down there is Valaklith, more or less. Everyone else is either gone or long dormant.

Also, despite the fact that "kicking a puppy" may seem just too much, if said eilistreeans are caught dealing with the enemies of Lolth during an event, there isn't much that can be done with them, save perhaps a good old fashioned slaughter in the name of the Spider Queen.

How long has it been since you played in the Underdark? There are at least 7 or 8 running around now.

[Darksider_war]

where did you see them, if I may ask? Only divine caster (not necessarily cleric) of Lolth down there is Valaklith, more or less. Everyone else is either gone or long dormant.

Also, despite the fact that "kicking a puppy" may seem just too much, if said eilistreeans are caught dealing with the enemies of Lolth during an event, there isn't much that can be done with them, save perhaps a good old fashioned slaughter in the name of the Spider Queen.

How long has it been since you played in the Underdark? There are at least 7 or 8 running around now.

about 3 days

[Moridin]

where did you see them, if I may ask? Only divine caster (not necessarily cleric) of Lolth down there is Valaklith, more or less. Everyone else is either gone or long dormant.

Also, despite the fact that "kicking a puppy" may seem just too much, if said eilistreeans are caught dealing with the enemies of Lolth during an event, there isn't much that can be done with them, save perhaps a good old fashioned slaughter in the name of the Spider Queen.

How long has it been since you played in the Underdark? There are at least 7 or 8 running around now.

about 3 days

Well then, you have not been paying attention.

[pattu]

... Sshamath's conclave has the means to terminate every religious institution in the city if it comes to open violence. It is as simple as turning on a switch

I approve this message

-Cal Baendar