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Re: COMING SOON : Harper Scout
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:14 am
by chad878262
No and No.
Re: COMING SOON : Harper Scout
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:21 am
by Steve
Valefort wrote:It's impossible to reach equality when you introduce new mechanics though, how can you define a standard when the mechanics are completely different ?
I don't know if this was rhetorical, but, even with an infinite number of mechanics available, they all thread through the same few eyes of the needle: overcome AC, the AB to do it, and the DMG possible against set Hit Points. Those are the basic aspects of the mechanical game, that in order to "defeat your foe," one has to calculate for. If any one mechanic is besting any of the basic Standard related to those aspects, then yes, one calculates that mechanic better.
being challenged, powerbuilds are essentially boring.
If anyone has rolled through the entirety of the Server on a powerbuild, then I guess, there are those that would repeat that process of "exploration" on subsequently weaker builds. I guess. I can think of a million funner things to do with my time. But then again, I have yet to experience about 20-30% of the Server, because of different reasons. So to say powerbuilds are boring is uber subjective, because I could find it very exciting to finally see the White Dragon! Or maybe one day have the chance to go to hell!
As a former DM you know well that a DM can always challenge a party of adventurers, no matter how much they powerbuilt. PvP is another beast and PvE effectiveness is not exactly the same thing as PvP power. So .. might equals right ? It's relative, for PvE you don't need all that much.
This is true: psychological torture is far more fun and interesting to employ, as a DM. *Novus waves hi to Mealir* PvP is also a beast of its own nature, but you have to admit that a few PrCs were specifically nerfed or removed on BGTSCC because of their ability to make a build trample both NPC and PC content...which I guess people didn't find very fun, nor very fair.
Might equals right. I can count many, many events where essentially a handful of Epic Toons took down the Boss, and then bang: event was over. "Good guys" won.
As for PvE, there have been plenty of complaints of mechanics not being "in good quality" in order to utilize against certain Areas. Of course, there are equal complaints about how some mechanics are far too utilized in certain Areas, making a whole range of PC/builds kinda useless (even in a group).
I agree it is fair to say "it's relative," in most situations. Everything is relative to something. But one can also take the approach of saying: how is X specifically relative to
precisely Y.
Re: COMING SOON : Harper Scout
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:06 pm
by Valefort
AB, AC, damage are ofc the things to look at when you're looking at a melee oriented PRC, but what about a caster one ? Or a gish one ? Also you can't take that PRC outside of the context of the other existing classes in that field/path.
Try it, define a standard melee PRC of 5 levels.
If anyone has rolled through the entirety of the Server on a powerbuild, then I guess, there are those that would repeat that process of "exploration" on subsequently weaker builds. I guess. I can think of a million funner things to do with my time. But then again, I have yet to experience about 20-30% of the Server, because of different reasons. So to say powerbuilds are boring is uber subjective, because I could find it very exciting to finally see the White Dragon! Or maybe one day have the chance to go to hell!
There's exploration and then there's being challenged by mobs ! That's what I'm talking about when I say powerbuilds are boring, and ofc that's pretty subjective ... but that's still a big reason to not consider ultimate power options when building. Even if that may shock some readers there are a bunch of people who would like to see the server being much more difficult PvE wise (not me) !
Re: COMING SOON : Harper Scout
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:18 pm
by Steve
Valefort wrote:Try it, define a standard melee PRC of 5 levels.
Bodyguard/Neverwinter Nine.
There's exploration and then there's being challenged by mobs ! !
Okay, I wrote that out poorly. My "exploration" was in quotes because it really isn't exploration if you have already been there on a powerbuild/normal build/wathever build.
As well, it has been stated uptine times that after a few "rounds" on the Server, one pretty much OOC metagames every Area, knowing just what you need mechanically to overcome the mobs. This is not odd behavior, actually...it is pretty SMART behavior!!!
Of course, if mobs randomly adjusted, THEN, we'd see some cool shit happening!
Re: NEXT UPDATE : Planar Calling
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:06 am
by Kiran
dedude wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:42 am
Introduction
This is a new feature added to the planar calling spell lines (binding/ally/gate). A host of unique planar beings have been added to the game (and more will be added over time), and can be called if a caster learns their true name. Once an unbound being is called to a caster they will undergo a negotiation for the price of the being's services. If the caster agree and pay the price, the being will be bound to the caster and can henceforth be called upon and considered an ally.
How to learn the true name of a planar being
The DM team can leak a true name as part of an event, as a reward, as a clue, or any other way they see fit. They can also easily create new beings fitting their story lines as they see fit. But don't expect finding the true name of a being to be easy, they tend to keep those secret for a reason.
Rare books have been added to the loot tables that, with the right lore skills, can be deciphered and potentially reveal a clue to a true name. If you fail to decipher such a book, you can let someone else try who might have better lore/knowledge in the area. Make sure it is someone you trust though, or they could steal the knowledge in the book.
Finally, a true name can be a very valuable trade commodity. You are free to share a true name (or sell it) as you see fit. But remember, these beings are unique, two casters can't both call on the same one at the same time. So most casters would probably want to keep a true name secret.
How to call a planar being using its true name
To call a planar being by its true name you need a Planar Focus. The only known material to be able to function as a focus is a diamond. Three tiers of diamonds can be used:
- Diamond: lesser beings up to 15 HD
- Canary Diamond: beings up to 20 HD
- Blue Diamond: higher beings with no known limits
If you target one of these gems with a planar calling spell, you will be able to inscribe it with a true name, and then call on that being for negotiation. The negotiation includes a diplomacy check and the alignment distance between being and caster will influence it as well (may even make negotiation impossible). If you pay the price for the being's services the being will be bound to that gem and the gem becomes a Planar Focus bound to you, and can't be traded.
To call a being bound to a Planar Focus, use the appropriate calling spell and target the focus with it, and the being will be called.
Final notes
- When inscribing the true name into the gem, a Lore: The Planes skill check may reveal some information on the being before you call it.
- If a being is killed, it will not be possible to call it again for 24 hours. This "cooldown" may be increased later, or other penalties considered. Don't let a called being die, that is not part of the agreement you made with it...
- These beings can be stronger, smarter, weaker, uglier, even completely different from those normally called by the calling spells. But they are all subject to QC/dev balance so don't expect to be calling demi gods (well you can always ask a DM to let you do it and see if you survive it)
- And probably a bunch of other things that I forget to mention right now.
This sounds absolutely awesome!
Really like the concept.
Re: NEXT UPDATE : Planar Calling
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:07 am
by LuvHandles
This actually sounds great. Down the road I was going to ask for
Shards to be added as summons for selunites (assuming they aren't already in the lists as I don't have access to Greater Planar Ally, Gate or Epic Gate yet). Now apparently it can be accomplished with in the game mechanics and a DM, very nice.
Now to hunt for a blue diamond ...
Re: NEXT UPDATE : Planar Calling
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:28 am
by Nachti
Shards take a priestress along when leaving. Shards are better left for dms.
Re: NEXT UPDATE : Planar Calling
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:16 am
by LuvHandles
I agree that DM involvement with regards to Shards is ideal.
However, the link I provided showed two ways that a Shard (which is really just a female planetar) could be called to service.
The first one, which you seem to be referring to, was as part of the ritual of the Conjuring of the Second Moon, where multiple Shards are summoned. And the priestess chosen is elevated to a Shard herself. This is not the way I was referring to, though it would make a great RP event to have all the selunite players perform the ritual!
The other is simply:
Shards were sent by the goddess to show her favor or give aid to mortals
Which to my mind could be as the result of a conjuration. But with the advent of this new system, there is no need to add Shards as common summons. Instead a highly favored selunite could build a real relationship with a Shard after receiving its true name. Of course this brings us back full circle to requiring DM intervention, which I believe was your point.
Re: NEXT UPDATE: Spellfocus Conjuration
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:15 pm
by Nachti
Summon I-IX now benefit from conjuration focus.
Swarm spells now benefit from conjuration focus.
Dead Walk and lure shadow demons now benefit from invocation focus.
Animate Dead and Army of the Dead now benefit from necromancy focus.
Re: NEXT UPDATE: Spellfocus Conjuration
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:39 pm
by Flasmix
How does Creeping Doom benefit from conjuration focus?
Re: NEXT UPDATE: Spellfocus Conjuration
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:42 pm
by mrm3ntalist
Flasmix wrote:How does Creeping Doom benefit from conjuration focus?
It doesnt
Re: NEXT UPDATE: Spellfocus Conjuration
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:44 pm
by Flasmix
Oh
Description says it's a swarm of insects so I thought it did.
Re: NEXT UPDATE: Spellfocus Conjuration
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:13 pm
by mrm3ntalist
Flasmix wrote:Oh
Description says it's a swarm of insects so I thought it did.
I think by swarm Nachti means the spells that make more than one summon. The conjuration affects the summons HD.
Creeping doom is a damaging spell and not a summon per say. There is no HD to raise.
Re: NEXT UPDATE: Spellfocus Conjuration
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:12 pm
by Marathados
To be blunt, that sucks actually. Considering that the summons were at a level, which made them somewhat useful (aka not overpowered for sure). With this change they are most likely in the "do not use unless specialized"-category again...
Why not just keep them as they are and provide an additional bonus with the foci?
Re: NEXT UPDATE: Spellfocus Conjuration
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:17 pm
by Theodore01
Marathados wrote:To be blunt, that sucks actually. Considering that the summons were at a level, which made them somewhat useful. With this change they are most likely in the "do not use unless specialized"-category again...
That's a good point here.
I tend to enjoy a planar calling with my cleric for a few difficult fights lately, but who has feats to spare for a spell which is very situational.