Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

[Storm Munin]

IMHO

The main issue with the FS class are how it is used by players.
The same go for most any other build btw.

Rest game mechanics allow for levels of rest PnP never allowed for thus short duration buff heavy classes, and pure sorcerers for that matter, can do insane things over time that few noncaster classes can match.
The only server counter to this are well spaced DM events allowing the rare rest.

So instead of hitting the FS class with nerfs, followed by nerfing the next class combo we deem annoying in how it is played (MoA/BG4 comes to mind, FS without the buffgrind), perhaps something should be done to the rest timer?


The game mechanics never were designed to allow near godlike creatures to enter a community pitfight immediately casting ethereal jaunt when the fight are started.
FS (input other class of short buffs) next begin a 5 minute loop of adding buffs while the antagonist wanders around looking lost.
Fight mercifully ends within 10 hits once the FS(input other class of short buffs) decides to actually do something.


The repetition of the lengthy casting of buffs are one of the reasons why my FS are rarely used these days, the low amount of skill points a far larger reason.

But, FS just like a cleric or wizard are actually rather fun to play when I as a player conserve the awesomeness buffs/spells for the brief moments where they really matter.
Then again my FS actually have high wis and do offensive spell casting (decently).


So again, why not do something to the rest timer, instead of burying our staff in perpetual nerfing of classes as more or less biased community voting will demand?

This would also save the server engine from the abuse taken by the FAI campfire archmage assassins and the like who sneak behind a tree every 5 minutes, or so, to keep wards up.


A minor secondary suggestion concerning FS (and clerics for that matter) are demanding certain threshold amounts of lore religion ranks to correspond with church positions?
That kind of nerfing would just make a lot of sense to many classes.


/m

[chad878262]

Good points Munin. I wouldn't be opposed to lengthening (perhaps even doubling or more) the rest timer so long as it stays relaxed for low levels, like 1-10 or something. However, much like the fact that if FS were nerfed we'd see an increase of STR bards, wouldn't the rest timer increase simply result in an influx of various Warlock builds? I don't know the answer, just bringing up one possible outcome of such a change.

[Mallore]

I'm not sure why an end 3.5 class (aka one of the last books published) was really ever considered in the realm of balancing. Don't forget WoTC was in the business of selling books, books added power creep to raise dollars.


I think the best way to fix the class of one was inclined to over juts beefing it is three thoughts.

1 - remove all its DRs. The FS should not have better DR then barbarian or make them the same DR. Also the haste x3 a day is obviously bad, should been expidcious retreat. Removal of DR does not affect anyone's rp. Makes them slightly less soloable and pvp balance (like 8 percent).

2 - fix the core classes to be encourage more development in them vs dipping. 3.75 did this (designer off shoot) by making taking as much as 15 levels in a core class better then a personage class. This may shrink what people see as a power gap.

3 - ignore it. Call it a snow flake under your breath, think them as cop outs. Or just have fun and realize it's an rp server and the will of the mob sometimes wins. Go with it and you'll enjoy your self more. Me, I keep my eye out for the favored souls of the realm but no one has yet to come up to me IC declaring the will of their God. Actually that be be an awesome side note. Some DM telling a favor soul what he or she must do. It is in the favor soul fluff, they often do not have a will of their own. Anyways I'm off course.

I rather see option 2 if anything. .

[NegInfinity]

So instead of hitting the FS class with nerfs, followed by nerfing the next class combo we deem annoying in how it is played (MoA/BG4 comes to mind, FS without the buffgrind), perhaps something should be done to the rest timer?

YOu would actually want to do something about time speed in addition to that.
Current timescale (1 hour == 5 RL minutes) coupled with rest being available makes long duration spells less powerful, and short duration spells much more powerful than what they're supposed to be.

I played on a server that had 1:1 time scale (meaning one in-game hour was equal to on real-life hour), it was a significant difference, because long lasting spells felt "right", while short spells were saved as a "last resort" option.

Now, nobody would want to play 1:1 timescale on bgtscc (because that would also imply 8 RL hour rest timer), but if something was done about time speed, it could as well adjust "power" of magic-heavy classes.

[Storm Munin]

1. Removing the feat DR wont matter one iota, unless you mean the spells they should have are to be removed?

Losing the 3xhaste wont matter to anyone but the party members of the FS, battletide you know.


2. Yes, lets change the classes instead of spending that time to offer new things.


3. I am more concerned over that curiosity concerning clerics myself.
Then again Cha 8 are quite popular I hear, and social skill dips cost stat points in INT.
Lets nerf the clerics.

/M

[AlwaysSummer Day]

Well making them take 5 levels of Cleric/pally/BG to get divine shield/divine might/epic divine might would at least leave them vulnerable to dispells.

[RagingPeace]

Let's undo all nerfs, also bring druid / monks back. We should not nerf anything, nerfing is bad.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

Let's undo all nerfs, also bring druid / monks back. We should not nerf anything, nerfing is bad.

They won't do that. I asked about it and all other nerfs were necessary and will never ever be reverted because only this one class is immune to nerfs.

[mrm3ntalist]

Let's undo all nerfs, also bring druid / monks back. We should not nerf anything, nerfing is bad.

Let's undo all nerfs, also bring druid / monks back. We should not nerf anything, nerfing is bad.

They won't do that. I asked about it and all other nerfs were necessary and will never ever be reverted because only this one class is immune to nerfs.

It was decided that FSs will stay as they are.

You can still make snarky posts if that helps you deal with any problems you have, but most will give those post the weigh they deserve, which is nothing.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

Sorry if having a differing opinion than you makes me "snarky".

Can we stay on topic?

How about we remove the monk/druid combo rule. The 2/3rd monk rule for the wisdom ab feat, the favored enemy Dwarves feats, the nerfs done to deep gnomes, the shadow dancer dex requirements etc etc etc.

Also I truly hope the admins consider implementing some sort of FS change. From what I understand qc doesn't have the final word.

[mrm3ntalist]

Sorry if having a differing opinion than you makes me "snarky".

Anyone with basic intelligence can understand when someone is being sarcastic because he cant deal with a desicion

Can we stay on topic?

How about we remove the monk/druid combo rule. The 2/3rd monk rule for the wisdom ab feat, the favored enemy Dwarves feats, the nerfs done to deep gnomes, the shadow dancer dex requirements etc etc etc.

You are off topic.

[RagingPeace]

Sorry if having a differing opinion than you makes me "snarky".

Anyone with basic intelligence can understand when someone is being sarcastic because he cant deal with a desicion

Can we stay on topic?

How about we remove the monk/druid combo rule. The 2/3rd monk rule for the wisdom ab feat, the favored enemy Dwarves feats, the nerfs done to deep gnomes, the shadow dancer dex requirements etc etc etc.

You are off topic.

I'm okay with the decision, I was just trying to make a point. As I don't understand why so many fear nerfs, it's been done in the past, and is usually the best way to balance.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

People fear what they don't understand.

[mrm3ntalist]

Oh its quote time!

"I dream of a better tommorow where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives!"

[chad878262]

QC does not fear nerfs. We discussed it in the QC forums much as we did here. However, if I take anything from both discussions its this:

If we nerf FS in any way, lots of players will be pissed off...If we don't nerf FS other players will be pissed. So in the end what's best for the server as a whole?

Well, on the plus side, if we take the time to properly nerf FS, they could no longer ROTFLMAOSTOMP the server and would be leveled somewhat with other high end classes, or removed all together. Server balance is served and all is right with the world...

Except that on the negative side, we use our dev resources to nerf a class instead of doing other things that (hopefully) enhance everyone's time in game, making things fun and engaging for various reasons. And then what do we do about bard, druid, Dwarven defender, and any other "top of the heap" classes? I originally argued for the nerf and changed my vote not because I don't think it would overall be a good thing...But because it's a very divisive topic and I feel it is low priority in comparison to adding new things, fixing bugs and giving people more options.

Some may think FS is so OP that our should be a top priority to nerf or remove the class, but you don't have to play one, nor are you in any way required to spend your time rp'ing with them (if they effect your fun, why would you?) I think barbarian being improved upon, as well as other classes to come (after bug fixes) are way more fun and add more to the server than talking a class away or making it weaker so the next in line can have is pave on the chopping block.