Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2017)

[Marathados]

This sounds absolutely awesome!

Really like the concept.

+1

Nice, creative approach!

[Marathados]

To be blunt, that sucks actually. Considering that the summons were at a level, which made them somewhat useful. With this change they are most likely in the "do not use unless specialized"-category again...

That's a good point here.
I tend to enjoy a planar calling with my cleric for a few difficult fights lately, but who has feats to spare for a spell which is very situational.

Playing with an arcane gish alt I can feel your pain even more. Clerics do have even less means to ward the summons.

[dedude]

How do you know it sucks when you haven't even tried it yet? Nachti is pretty good with the summon balancing. And this was actually one of the few things that pretty much everyone on the QC and dev teams agreed on, and that doesn't happen often.

[Theodore01]

How can it get better if all summons get downgraded for a user who summons something once in a while ?
If you are a dedicated summoner you have a PRC for this.

[mrm3ntalist]

How can it get better if all summons get downgraded for a user who summons something once in a while ?
If you are a dedicated summoner you have a PRC for this.

what were the stats of the summons before the last revamp

[Planehopper]

How can it get better if all summons get downgraded for a user who summons something once in a while ?
If you are a dedicated summoner you have a PRC for this.

A PrC that adds nothing in this system, by the way, which is disappointing.

Is it possible that the Red Wizard +1 could be changed to Red Wizard or Thaumaturgist? I can't see how being a Red Wiz would qualify you for greater summons than a PrC designed to show a thorough specialization in that very task?

There is no mention of the class here?

[aaron22]

it does get free augment and extend summons... that is pretty good for a 5 level prc. now that the summon lines got reworked.

[Planehopper]

So how does being a Red Wizard mean you are better at conjuration/summoning than a mage dedicated to conjuration/summoning? If classes are a factor in this new homemade system, then the class dedicated to the system should see a benefit, no?

And the current perks are irrelevant, as Red Wizard is a great class too. The point is the two PrCs and what they stand for, and how they work within a new homemade system.

It's a cool way of looking at things and bring relevancy to the spell foci, but I don't see the logic in the PrC interaction, thats all.

[Theodore01]

How can it get better if all summons get downgraded for a user who summons something once in a while ?
If you are a dedicated summoner you have a PRC for this.

what were the stats of the summons before the last revamp

this are the current stats of Planar Ally: Bralani, Djinn, Succubus Human

Hidden: show

[dedude]

So how does being a Red Wizard mean you are better at conjuration/summoning than a mage dedicated to conjuration/summoning?

It doesn't unless you are a Red Wizard of Conjuration. Red Wizards have Enhanced Specialization in their chosen school. A Wiz/Thau will still be a better summoner than a Wiz/RWoT.

[CrimsonMist]

And you can still be a Red Wizard/Thaumaturgist if you really want to go down that avenue?

[Planehopper]

A Wiz/Thau will still be a better summoner than a Wiz/RWoT.

How so?

Specifically related to this new system that changes the HD of summons. "Enhanced Specialization" or not, the RWoT is able to +1 any other combination. These are home-brewed rules, are they not?

My question is why this enhanced specialization is seen as more specialized than a PrC dedicated to Conjuration/Summoning, specifically related to this home brew situation.

Of course, "just be a red wizard". That doesn't answer the root question.

[Marathados]

How do you know it sucks when you haven't even tried it yet? Nachti is pretty good with the summon balancing. And this was actually one of the few things that pretty much everyone on the QC and dev teams agreed on, and that doesn't happen often.

Well, I do not want to be overly sceptical. But as I used the Ghaele via Greater Planar Binding somewhat regularly, I feel nerfing summons is not the right direction. I could be wrong of course, but considering how bad the Firre is now for example, I just can not imagine this change could be for the better.

[Planehopper]

I like the concept of this, and can't wait to hunt down a name.

Do any PrCs play into the mechanics of this feature?

[Tsidkenu]

How about +1 HD for RW 10 and/or Thauma 5? Place it at the capstone of progression as an indicator of expertise in Calling/Summoning. A thauma can always reach that +1 bonus before RW 10, thus respecting the singular focus such clerics/magi have chosen.

The bonuses should not stack in the case of RW+Thauma