Underdark General Discussion Thread

[pattu]

((I can offer myself as a guide if you feel lost. The UD can be empty at times, but Scatterbrains is correct. When there are players it is fantastic.

[Diamore]

My usual times have around twenty people on and no UD players. Assistance from locals is unlikely.

If an area is difficult to navigate, has no learning curve, requires forum research, requires experienced players to assist, expects death in the first few minutes of arrival and "gets much better later", you will have virtually no new blood. Two simple changes, map markers and a dedicated new arrival location as surface has, would remedy much of the pointless pain of starting a character in the UD. Even if the areas marked on the mini-map stop at level 15, it allows for a starting point.

Casual players and new arrivals keep the surface active and fresh. Something the UD would benefit from with its limited numbers.

[DM Mouse]

Problem with new and casual players in the UD is then you have issues with the Lore being trampled. What's the solution for that?

[Diamore]

Educate them. It takes time, but otherwise the world gets stale.

It works on the surface.

The UD being difficult to get going in does not in anyway increase the likelihood of those who stay sticking to the lore. There are just less of them to educate.

That said, if the idea is to not have new and casual players in the UD, job done. It explains the low population there even at peak times.

[Empoweredfan]

It is a tradition to hide your location down there. There are often more on than it seems. . . running around the most dangerous areas killing NPC creatures. . . so yeah. There is just a low population even at peek hours.

[Servin]

The UD has always been an area where the new players (to the setting) had to request education and the old ones would provide that without a fuss, and not old players offer education first, whilst the new ones might consider it.

This is what made the UD setting get brilliant, self sufficient players. I could not imagine priestesses of Lolth running around the city, spoon feeding and kindly asking - would the newbies like to learn something. Offering slow death on the other hand...

Clearly, it does not seem an area to your interest.

[Storm Munin]

In order to be able to teach something it requires at least a somewhat willing student.


On the surface ive never exited the spawn point to have an orc ive never seen before barf in my face within 2 seconds.
Nor have I seen a gnome walk swinging a human citizen cleric's head around while casually striding down the streets of baldur's gate telling all and everyone of how he killed it.
An open invitation to join in the roleplay going on at FAI rarely gets the immediate OOC response: "if you hurt him I will sic my epic friends on you".

A short replay on new toons in the underdark:
Lolthite drow generally want that menzoberranzan feeling.
Wizards want to be instantly awesome, whining about how hard it is to level (it isnt, just very slow as a first level drow due to ecl +2).
Rebel gnome generally want to be ..well rebel.
Imaskari usually always begin a conversation with any stranger on how they arent really humans but come from a secret hidden underdark city. The main point of their life seems to be to be on the surface so the second question asked is how they can get there.
Orcs are like surface dwarves but worse, usually they cant talk their native language either (perhaps they could get it for free please?).
Duergar usually are fairly decently played actually.

Now for the oldtimers:
Well, we have a Seat spending most of his cycles drinking in gloura's if he does any social appearance at all.
A scattered brained trickster being awfully cuddly with her ranger companion when not causing migraine to anyone she speaks to (the surface isnt saved from this either).
A few surly drunks.
Dozens of drow wizards too busy to really socialize.
A shopkeeper who doesnt seem all that interested in selling anything really.
A House of drow seemingly hellbent on annihilating the duergar miners all by themselves, no doubt causing endless diplomatic efforts with an angered illithid hive (seriously, all Xilaben toons should have bane weapons by now).
If its an imaskari it spends most of its servertime on the surface.
Gnomes spend most of their life exploring the fringes of the underdark.
it goes on...

I intentionally didnt mention most of my own UD toons (but I have too many).


In short, what the underdark needs is oldtimers spending less time grinding and more socializing.


Part of the problem is the oldtimers being stuffy (yes, we are), part is some of the newcomers absolute lack of understanding of the underdark (and in some cases social behaviour at large). The level of DM monitoring isnt helping.


The only thing that can realistically be done is if we all pull the boat along by educating those willing to listen in whatever cunning way we can imagine.

This however falls short on the fact that not all underdark players accept sshamathan lore and the server changes to this lore, complicating matters endlessly.

But lets keep on trying...


One thing that could be done is a complete toon reset after which we oldtimers settle down in two or three factions/houses and begin anew. Perhaps gaming hours (GMT +/-) should be used to decide which faction/house (eurasian/american/far eastern). But would it work?

[Empoweredfan]

That is a very well thought out summary of our situation. Just goes to show that we have a lot to work on, both old and new.

. . . well, the sooner we start the better yes? =)

[roke42]

Maybe the bulletin borad down there (which disn't like the one in BG) can be used to inform new players about the lore down there? Like the tips for newcomers that we have on the surface.

[Servin]

The problem with the board is this that nobody reads it. Especially when it comes to the 'very relaxed lore players'. Hell you may even squash their nose into it and they will still not read it.

I remember sending a tell to a guy saying no weapons in the city.
He replied back - this is UD everything is allowed.
I replied pointing at the notice board.
He ran away in a different direction.
At this point I felt itchy at my trigger hostile button and then explain to the DM's I felt threatened.

I mean I started off in the UD knowing practically nothing. Haladan and Empoweredfan got me into the setting and here I am, at least until recently (currently at an extended leave but peeking in from time to time).

Whatever solution you guys think would help, please mind how will it affect the overall experience. People with demanding attitude do not help. Please do not beg people to go down there to RP. This is hardly getting the quality characters down there...

On a different note: Can we have the Lolthites back? Nobody else but them had the talent into dealing with any kind of lore inconsistencies... When they were around, there were hardly any morons claiming they got rubber weapons and will wield them openly in the city.

[Empoweredfan]

I don't mind saying that I miss the temple of Lolth. They made political plots so much more relevant, players got to plot against one another to no end (not that much of it lead to anything, except the magical shooting tower that is to be placed over the temple . . . to 'prevent' any further attack on it).

[roke42]

I miss them as well... But the problem was, there weren't really enough players up for it. Running a guild of two or three people, living in different timezones, didn't much sense.

And then there were all those "I don't fear anything" people around. Could have been the Sshamath setting with it's wizards, but still I would expect in general more respect towards Lolthite priestesses and towards Lolth herself. Maybe some players just didn't know or didn't want to know about the lore. Or am I myself wrong here?

I start to think about that the UD areas need a complete redesign. The surface did get a lot of changes in the last few years, the UD almost nothing. I am not sure if we even have the playerbase down there to RP some changes right. I don't really like the idea if something big is run by only one or two players.
Maybe making some of the low level areas easier, while reducing the XP granted per killed creature could encourage new people to stay there. Most of them are too frustrated by dieing all the time since they always move into too hard areas by not even having any clue where they are going towards.

[Empoweredfan]

True. . . true. . .

I remember that it was the sense of the unknown that lead me to the UD. Undiscovered country and all that. I asked stupid questions at first, acted without care. . . But, I think I was lucky to hit a time where there were a lot of role players about, and lucky enough to meet Haladan on my first day.

. . which in turn lead me into contact with people that my character to this day, fear and respect (in her own way, mind you). The fear, I think was the result of being humbled by a single bat. . . . oh, watching Paper-man. Beautiful short animation. . . distracting me. . .

Anyway, fear. Yes. The fear. The fear, I think, can be a very good thing in playing a role. It makes you more careful, and if it is not abused by the other party, can lead to some meaningful interaction.

It may just be me, being a closet conservative (probably a conservative person, but don't want to admit it to myself), but I don't think easier areas will help any. A pointer towards the tombs might be helpful, but not making the areas easier than they already are. Danger is supposed to be one of the dominating things about the underdark, so it should be present from even low levels. And at level 1, it is supposed to be easy to die.

The real trouble, is that there are almost no player base to greet newcomers. . . and a few of the newcomers don't actually want to be greeted (as has been said). Still, I think that interaction with players is what is needed to keep players in the UD. More bling might dazzle players, but it is still the interaction that counts. And if we are lucky, they don't just want to run of into the dark and kill things to get to the surface.

[DM Sentinel]

I miss them as well... But the problem was, there weren't really enough players up for it. Running a guild of two or three people, living in different timezones, didn't much sense.

And then there were all those "I don't fear anything" people around. Could have been the Sshamath setting with it's wizards, but still I would expect in general more respect towards Lolthite priestesses and towards Lolth herself. Maybe some players just didn't know or didn't want to know about the lore. Or am I myself wrong here?

I start to think about that the UD areas need a complete redesign. The surface did get a lot of changes in the last few years, the UD almost nothing. I am not sure if we even have the playerbase down there to RP some changes right. I don't really like the idea if something big is run by only one or two players.
Maybe making some of the low level areas easier, while reducing the XP granted per killed creature could encourage new people to stay there. Most of them are too frustrated by dieing all the time since they always move into too hard areas by not even having any clue where they are going towards.

The citizens of Sshamath and general population are disdainful of priestesses and women in general. Fear, in some sense, but not as much as ruling mages. That is fact.

There were little or none of DMs interested in supporting traditional magocracy or lore of city, therefore, the guild was blooming.

It is not acceptable.

This unit will make sure that characters openly challenging authority of any officials of Conclave will be punished, ranging from fines to serious mutilations.

[Passiflora]

Lolthites gained popularity trough the population though last year with Lolth's sacrifice. This shouldn't be forgotten.


That's server lore.