Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

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Steve
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by Steve »

Don't go overboard, M3nt. If you're tired of the conversation, then leave it.

But a reason to remove FS is because it is a "has everything" Class introduced in Mask of the Betrayer, not a Canon D&D Class. Does that mean we should remove all other non-Canon Classes/PrCs? Maybe.

But as well, this:
Despite these powers, favored souls are often hindered by a sense of inescapable destiny that surrounds their births. They didn't choose their paths and may not want anything to do with their religion. In this way, the powers of a favored soul can be a burden rather than a blessing.
There is no burden to the Class, mechanically, yet it's RP is most certainly founded upon it. Literally, the Server could do without the FS Class and be perfectly fine with happy kitty smiles and puppy chocolates on floating clouds of RP goodness.

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Thorsson
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by Thorsson »

mrm3ntalist wrote: If we are to nerf everything... lets see

Expose weakness
Death attack and manyshot
Shapechange
Bards
Clerics
Druids
Hips
Abilities with extremely high DC
Monks flurry
Palemaster summons
Dwarven Defenders
Wizards
Warlocks
Sorcerers
CE/ICE and Casting
Several of those have been deliberately enhanced by BGTSCC - Druid & Palemaster Summons, Warlocks & Shapechange. Others have already been nerfed, e.g. the removal of Persistent Spell, although whether that is enough is another matter. Still, my point is that BGTSCC is not an innocent bystander in these matters...
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Thorsson
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by Thorsson »

mrm3ntalist wrote:
Thorsson wrote:Kaedrin nerfed it by putting it on a longer cooldown; I've heard of no complaints that this caused issues.
A cooldown is not a custom feat. T

he exploit, or the OPness of the feat is the stacking AC debuff. Thats what we tried to fix
There's also the automatic hit, which I've seen mentioned many times on this board as a reason to take the Feat.

Whether increasing the cooldown is the right approach or not, is not material to my argument; my point was that it has been done, with no ill effects.
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mrm3ntalist
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by mrm3ntalist »

Steve wrote:Don't go overboard, M3nt. If you're tired of the conversation, then leave it.
No, i am not tired.
But a reason to remove FS is because it is a "has everything" Class introduced in Mask of the Betrayer, not a Canon D&D Class. Does that mean we should remove all other non-Canon Classes/PrCs? Maybe.

But as well, this:
Despite these powers, favored souls are often hindered by a sense of inescapable destiny that surrounds their births. They didn't choose their paths and may not want anything to do with their religion. In this way, the powers of a favored soul can be a burden rather than a blessing.
There is no burden to the Class, mechanically, yet it's RP is most certainly founded upon it. Literally, the Server could do without the FS Class and be perfectly fine with happy kitty smiles and puppy chocolates on floating clouds of RP goodness.
Oh it is not the mechanics that bother you?

If the DMs want to remove the FS for RP reasons that is fine. I am thinking what else there is to remove for RP reasons...
Several of those have been deliberately enhanced by BGTSCC - Druid & Palemaster Summons, Warlocks & Shapechange. Others have already been nerfed, e.g. the removal of Persistent Spell, although whether that is enough is another matter. Still, my point is that BGTSCC is not an innocent bystander in these matters...
When was the last nerf of an existing class? To put it simply, I prefer spending my time on making new things, not going on infinite loops of nerfs
There's also the automatic hit, which I've seen mentioned many times on this board as a reason to take the Feat.

Whether increasing the cooldown is the right approach or not, is not material to my argument; my point was that it has been done, with no ill effects.
Ah yes, the autohit was the main thing we tried to fix.

To do anything else, other than putting a cooldown, needs to make a custom feat.
Last edited by mrm3ntalist on Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by mrm3ntalist »

chad878262 wrote:
Selande wrote:Maecius
I hope this was in jest... If not it is against server rules and really uncalled for.
It is a jest :lol: :D

Chad meet Selande... Selande meet Chad :D
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by Thorsson »

mrm3ntalist wrote:When was the last nerf of an existing class? To put it simply, I prefer spending my time on making new things, not going on infinite loops of nerfs
I don't think the fact that it hasn't been done for a while is a great argument. Classes have been nerfed in the past; if the intestinal fortitude to do this has been lost, that's not necessarily something of which to boast.

I know there's been a lot of self-congratulatory back-slapping about new Feats, but new doesn't always mean good. Sometimes fixing past mistakes is better.
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mrm3ntalist
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by mrm3ntalist »

Thorsson wrote:
mrm3ntalist wrote:When was the last nerf of an existing class? To put it simply, I prefer spending my time on making new things, not going on infinite loops of nerfs
I don't think the fact that it hasn't been done for a while is a great argument. Classes have been nerfed in the past; if the intestinal fortitude to do this has been lost, that's not necessarily something of which to boast.
The past is even before 2012 that i joined. Its like ancient times to me. I am certain even you dont remember when the last nerf on an existing class was made. I mean damn.. you joined in 2009. You thought to nerf FS on 2016???
I know there's been a lot of self-congratulatory back-slapping about new Feats, but new doesn't always mean good. Sometimes fixing past mistakes is better.
The thing is, that making new content is generally good for everyone.

Doing nerfs because something is powerful is like going in circles. A huge waste of time and why most new servers fail. They try too much to balance mechanics instead of caring for the players and adding new content.
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by mrm3ntalist »

chambordini wrote:In the meantime I, as a player and a member of QC or whatever other form or capacity I hold in this server, along with many others like Steve I'm sure, will continue to ask for its removal, as it's well within my rights to do so, for the many reasons stated above, not just limited to a mechanical aspect, which certainly does add to an already very hefty pile of reasons, which make up the case for the removal of the FvS class once and for all from the server of BGTSCC.

Thank you.
What is the purpose of this?

You can keep ask to remove it, others can keep ask to keep it, then others will be asking to put it back if it gets removed.

What point you want to make? That someone doesnt let you to post?

Thank you
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by Thorsson »

mrm3ntalist wrote:You thought to nerf FS on 2016???
Sneakers have been nerfed through 'fixing' Uncanny Dodge and all non-casters have been nerfed through 'fixing' the CL bug, so why not change something that nerfs casters, which were already the most powerful and have had new classes added, increasing their power (like Archmage and Hierophant)?
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by Akroma666 »

chambordini wrote:Like I said before, removing FvS might ultimately be a DM decision or more so an admin one, and yes, let's have them have that discussion.

In the meantime I, as a player and a member of QC or whatever other form or capacity I hold in this server, along with many others like Steve I'm sure, will continue to ask for its removal, as it's well within my rights to do so, for the many reasons stated above, not just limited to a mechanical aspect, which certainly does add to an already very hefty pile of reasons, which make up the case for the removal of the FvS class once and for all from the server of BGTSCC.

Thank you.
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by Boddynock »

chad878262 wrote:
Selande wrote:Maecius
I hope this was in jest... If not it is against server rules and really uncalled for.
I don't know man, if we are making a list of things that are OMGLAZORBEAMS overpowered...then it's uncalled for to leave Maecius OFF of the list.


;) :lol:

Let's all have a little chuckle and simmer down now, eh? Maybe have a beer or four.
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mrm3ntalist
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by mrm3ntalist »

chambordini wrote:The point is, and this is just me thinking, that players make up the majority of a server's life energy and population, so if a lot of players ask for something, naturally it might be very well worth the time to take into consideration, for members of staff be that dev/qc/dm. And not just pulling a "blanket no" to a very popular request because players have no such power of decision.

I'm really just attempting to counter some of the points that you and others use to argue against removal, that is all.

Please, continue.
Ah, mixing your role on the server and your rights etc felt like i was hearing a political speech or a lawyer in court or something... Just making certain no rights were at fault.

Carry on.
Thorsson wrote:Sneakers have been nerfed through 'fixing' Uncanny Dodge and all non-casters have been nerfed through 'fixing' the CL bug, so why not change something that nerfs casters, which were already the most powerful and have had new classes added, increasing their power (like Archmage and Hierophant)?
Is it a nerf on sneaks or an power boost for the classes that get uncanny dodge. Anyway, it is hardly felt on sneaks, whichever way you see it

About the CL fix I couldnt agree more. Another waste of time. Still i am volunteering my time to fix any issues with something i didnt agree with. Once it was decided to fix it, which i was against, I stopped coomplaining and helped fixing it. Something that is hard for some here to do
Last edited by mrm3ntalist on Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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chad878262
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by chad878262 »

mrm3ntalist wrote:
chad878262 wrote:
Selande wrote:Maecius
I hope this was in jest... If not it is against server rules and really uncalled for.
It is a jest :lol: :D

Chad meet Selande... Selande meet Chad :D
whoops, sorry Selande, my bad. :oops:
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by Akroma666 »

chambordini wrote:
Hidden: show
Akroma666 wrote:
chambordini wrote:Like I said before, removing FvS might ultimately be a DM decision or more so an admin one, and yes, let's have them have that discussion.

In the meantime I, as a player and a member of QC or whatever other form or capacity I hold in this server, along with many others like Steve I'm sure, will continue to ask for its removal, as it's well within my rights to do so, for the many reasons stated above, not just limited to a mechanical aspect, which certainly does add to an already very hefty pile of reasons, which make up the case for the removal of the FvS class once and for all from the server of BGTSCC.

Thank you.
You know what shows true character.. to know when you're beat and move on.. not keep beating the same dead horse. Let it go man..
Apologies if I don't seem like I'm trying to make a name for myself or meeting your standards of true character lol, I'm really just thinking about what would be, design wise, best for the server. Take your pick, which virtues do you prefer your staff to have?

Actually don't, let's not make this personal, shall we? Keep on topic and all that, friends.
This isn't personal.. you just made a proclamation that you wont stop trying to remove a class that a great majority of the server actually enjoy playing. This has nothing to do with your "name" or my "standards".. Its just a waste of energy. People like the class, I don't care for it myself, but other players genuinely enjoy playing the class. Finding a compromise to allow them to play and not have it ROFLSTOMP everything on the server via balance.. isn't that what QC is supposed to do? Not just remove something because of personal conflict or distaste.
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Re: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

Unread post by chad878262 »

This keeps coming up in various threads so I think something bears repeating...

The March update was HUGE and include vast amounts of undocumented fixes/changes/additions/etc. This is not the fault of QC or even Developers or admins. It came down to a very simple question: Do you want ALL of it or none of it? We as a server went for all of it... This was probably a good decision for everyone since folks got their free RCR and many of the new mechanics really have invigorated the server. There was 2 years worth of various items and combing through them all to pick and chose what to get in would have taken probably 2 more years.

The plan was and continues to be to monitor and adjust as we move forward. This includes reviewing the dispel fix to determine if we want to keep it, scrap it, reduce the caps on the dispel line to be PnP accurate or otherwise. It also includes reviewing other things as the constant updates with bug fixes should show. Will we get to a point when CL25 becomes 'ok' instead of CL30? No idea...maybe? Will anything be done to EW or any other OP feats or classes? not sure... We still got a lot of bugs to fix and new things to review that slipped through the cracks (the Parry Feat discussion shows that well enough).

None of this really applies to the FS discussion, but is still on topic in the sense that I all of these discussions should happen before we consider nerfing FS or any other class.
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