Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Just to clear things up. There is no intention to screw anyone here.There were never 18hd summons and more importantly in such variety and bonuses. The summons were being worked on since last years big update. They were worked on to be more efficient, have a big variety of summons for all alignments, occupy the proper summon slot and fix any bugs with them ( like when they get stack on transitions ).

Among others Rasael, BlackmanD, Nachti and Dedude, created a summoning system more complete and efficient than ever before. This last change that some call "nerf" was made so that such strong summons werent given freely. Spell focus compliment them nicely. Even without the spell focus the summons are stronger and more efficient than before.

If you knew how summons worked in the past and compared them to what they are now your post would be null and void. I would suggest, in order to avoid a discussion about supposed nerfs and reduced abilities, to use the time of this update and find how much better the summons are.

It doesn't matter what the current or past summons stats are...

It is a nerf since it reduces the ability of the MAJORITY of ALL casters, of all types.

It then only boosts a hand picked specialized few builds that will all be made after a %100 RCR and never need to face a foe in battle on the first level after they could finally use that neat new summon IV spell to save their party from death.... Only to find that new reduced HD summon is a wet paper cut out when facing a real foe of the level that spell is gained in natural progression.

This is a change focused on end game RCR characters

Edit:

A level 1 or 5 character using a -2HD summons how does that work?

How well does it work?

Aeb Ankor wrote:Edit:

A level 1 or 5 character using a -2HD summons how does that work?

How well does it work?

Obviously you got something very wrong, because what you just typed makes absolutely no sense. Again read the post above yours and take the time to understand how the summons work. If you have any questions please ask, many will answer. Till you undersand what is going on, lets avoid discussions about nerfs etc.

Edit: this should help - http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Summoning I believe after reading this, most will understand what is going on and instead of talking about nerfs etc, we will all thank rasael, blackmand, NAchti and dedude for all the work the did with summons.

From the custom summoning page:

All summons have been adjusted to following:

Summon Creature I: 2 HD Beast

Summon Creature I Wolf

Spell level : Innate level: 1, Bard: 1, Cleric: 1, Druid: 1, Ranger: 1, Sorcerer/Wizard: 1
School : Conjuration

What is this spell with -2HD ability?

Summon a pup or fox?

Aeb Ankor wrote:Summon Creature I Wolf

Spell level : Innate level: 1, Bard: 1, Cleric: 1, Druid: 1, Ranger: 1, Sorcerer/Wizard: 1
School : Conjuration

What is this spell with -2HD ability?

Summon a pup or fox?

That spell would get you a 2 HD creature

Summon Creature I: 2 HD Beast

+1 if spell focus conjuration another +1 with greater and another +2 with epic spell focus. Again, everything is here - http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Summoning

So that page is already updated?

and before this -2 HD summon change a level 1 wizard called a 4 HD summon?

Aeb Ankor wrote:So that page is already updated?

and before this -2 HD summon change a level 1 wizard called a 4 HD summon?

No. I dont think it did. Most likely it was weaker than the new one or the same. The -2hd happened on the planar binding line of spells mostly. We made them too strong ( 18hd or something ). Instead of giving 18hd to everyone, we decided to only give such strong summons to the casters with some investment in.

To compare this is the vanilla planar binding, greater spell. The stronger summon there was 12HD!!! Now we are talking about 16+HD summons.

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Planar_Binding%2C_Greater

People overvalue this summon change.

The creatures called have far more to offer then "HD" might suggest. Damage reduction, hitpoints, AC, weapons, spells and all these things havent been touched negatively.

They now just hit a little worser and have less saves.

I am curious, does the system work only with natural casting?

As warlock, I can easily use greater planar binding spell, and Would love to incorparate one of said unique being into his RP using scrolls, is it actually possible? Or do I need an actual -native- planar binding spell?

In my previous experience it was AC that was pretty horrible, even buffed. Did the AC get adjusted at all?

Can't wait to try out all the new summons soon!

I read the wiki (Also, first sentence on page... choice should be changed to Choose.
), and it seems there are "other" features being incorporated with summoning.


Such as True Name (new feat? )

This could make things a bit more interesting when it comes to these summoning spells being viable in the epic levels.

I can also see there was a bell curve where summons didn't get weaker until about midway up, then capped at 18HD with Gate. Which means Greater Plan Binding (which should be at least 16HD based in my opinion to match with Summon Creature XIII as they are the same level spell.


So True naming would bring GPB to 17 HD baseline.

Now speaking of the HD increases. I like it. It gives purpose and a little extra oomph to those who want to specialize in a summon class.

What I can't see agreeing with is why Red Wizards getting a +1 HD for focusing in Conjuration.

Why not just make it for any wizard specializing in conjuration and call it a day? I can't see how it will make anything OP, but another 10ish HP and possible +1 AB (maybe) might make it worth sacrificing a conjuration specialization vs necromancy or even divination (new spells folks).



On another note.. .does True Neutral have the ability to summon ANY alignment restricted planar summons? Or would you only be having true neutral beings to summon? Just saying...

Looks like a lot of hard work went into this. And it looks pretty in depth. Thank you.



Last word on Thaumaturge... it is OK for what it does. Even a 5 level PRC. All it really gives is extended summons (which most buffs fade out anyways extended) and saves you using a higher spell level.. where it shines is casting level 9 summon spells, but that is about it. Augment summon can be had for the same number of feats. I think going 5 levels of Thaum should be included in the calculation for HD, even if it is only +1 HD at level 5. Just my two coppers.


But again, you guys did awesome with this. I look forward to anymore tweaking that comes into this.

+1

Could work with scrolls.

Planehopper wrote:In my previous experience it was AC that was pretty horrible, even buffed. Did the AC get adjusted at all?

Can't wait to try out all the new summons soon!

No change to AC. Outsiders have DR to help being hit and arcanes can buff AC by +13.

Such as True Name (new feat? )

No new feat. Its included into current system. Basically you cast planar spells on an item instead on ground. See wiki.

I can also see there was a bell curve where summons didn't get weaker until about midway up, then capped at 18HD with Gate. Which means Greater Plan Binding (which should be at least 16HD based in my opinion to match with Summon Creature XIII as they are the same level spell.

Outsiders are 2 levels lower because they are a superior race compared to undead, animals or elementals. It gonna stay like this.

What I can't see agreeing with is why Red Wizards getting a +1 HD for focusing in Conjuration.

Read the lore about red wizards. They basically live the school they pick.

With true naming anyone can get up to the HD of a red wizard.

On another note.. .does True Neutral have the ability to summon ANY alignment restricted planar summons? Or would you only be having true neutral beings to summon? Just saying...

Yes. true neutral is propably overpowered because they can summon everything. A creature just cant be summoned if you have the opposite alignment to it.

Sometimes I think true neutrals should face alignment changes with every step they do.

Last word on Thaumaturge... it is OK for what it does. Even a 5 level PRC. All it really gives is extended summons (which most buffs fade out anyways extended) and saves you using a higher spell level.. where it shines is casting level 9 summon spells, but that is about it. Augment summon can be had for the same number of feats. I think going 5 levels of Thaum should be included in the calculation for HD, even if it is only +1 HD at level 5. Just my two coppers.

You forgot planar cohort. It gives you a extra creature up to 19 HD. Thats pretty damn strong.

Planehopper wrote:
In my previous experience it was AC that was pretty horrible, even buffed. Did the AC get adjusted at all?

Can't wait to try out all the new summons soon!


No change to AC. Outsiders have DR to help being hit and arcanes can buff AC by +13.

Oh wrong. some true named beings have increased AC.

I'm wondering something over the True Name creatures bound in diamonds.

Do all the Thaumaturge feats affect them?

Do they have the auto-extended use, and does the permanent planar binding affect them too? IE you can have one of them out without the timer.